new thread
Hi all! I'm new to the boards, but I won't bore you all with an introduction...unless you REALLY want one ^_^ Let's just say I'm just a lady who's a big fan of long haired men (so needless to say I'll be sticking around for a while).
I have a question that I have pondered for a long time. It seems to be some kind of social "norm" that a woman has long hair, so it is not generally questioned. Personally I think that everyone should have long, but sadly society thinks otherwise. What causes a man to want to grow his hair long? What's the reasoning? Surely it isn't all about "rebellion" or "standing out". Maybe it's because they've seen the light ^_^
~Jenn
Personally, I had sorta long hair as a little kid, then, was required to look conservative by my parents around 1981 or so. Grew into a *gasp* mullet in late '90, kept it going for a while, then decided to let it grow out. Best decision I ever made. Now I feel like myself again. Granted, I did suffer a couple setbacks in the past two years, but, I now am around mid-back, length-wise, and, with another 3-4" will be approaching my waist.
-J
I was inspired to grow my hair long in the 60s by groups like the
Beatles. Now all these years later I still have long hair,
I was one of those original long haired commie pinkos that started growing my hair long in the 60s. And if I had to do it over not only would I do it again, I would started sooner.
I can only speak for myself. I grew mine because I was tired of wearing it short. I'd worn it short the first 18 years of my life, and have grown and kept it long ever since. I'm 31, now.
Well, Jenn, it's great that you're a female who likes male long hair! The world needs more of your type. In any case, growing hair, at least in my case, is something that I discovered I wanted to do when I was 15. I am 18 now. However, the extreme dedication did not fully blossom until this past summer(my last haircut). From then on, I have been steadfast in my hair growing mission. I am at the 13 month mark with between 7.5 and 9 inches of hair. I am entering college this fall and plan to not cut my hair (aside from any minimal maintenance trims) until I graduate in 2007. For me, I admit that there is some style aspect to it. I personally feel that long hair does much to improve my looks, and, in turn, give me more self-confidence. On the other hand, as my other guys here will say, it's just a feeling that comes from deep within. It's impossible to put into words. Anyway, stick around. The guys here are great..it's an addicting board.
What causes a man to cut his hair short? I asked myself this very question one day sitting in my dorm. I had always thought long hair was badass but for some reason just letting mine grow had never really occured to me. So then it started. I figured I should grow it out at least once before it all falls out or I die or whatever. With that mentality I cut it about 6 months later for a job. 3 days after I started they laid me off. I thought it was over then. But after that haircut I just simply stopped going to the barber. I thought my little charade was over with, but like red said, it's something that comes from within. With that I simply no longer had any say in it. I had to grow hair; no ifs, ands, buts, or any other way around it. So here I am around 20 months after that cut, hair in front past my chin and hair in back at my sholderblades. All I can really say is that I love it. I love the look, I love the feel, somehow I became accustomed to being different than most people and I like it now. Even when I catch flack from people about my hair for whatever reason it just makes me smile. And oh my god, I've never gotten any attention from girls - ever. It's freaky, now they swarm my like nobody's business. I didn't believe it when people told me a lot of girls like guys with hair. Wow. Not to say I was popular with all the girls, but I went from getting no attention at all to quite a few of them hovering around me constantly. It was quite a shock. All in all I think it comes from watching to much anime and all the baddass bishounens having long hair. And probly to much powermetal. I just got into it when I started to grow my hair. I took one look at Hansi on the inside of that cd cover and was like "damn, I want to look like that". Actually I vividly remember that as being the moment I decided to at least try long hair. So blame Hansi I figure, at least for getting me started. Sorry to ramble on and on like that.
And oh my god, I've never gotten any attention from girls - ever. It's freaky, now they swarm my like nobody's business. I didn't believe it when people told me a lot of girls like guys with hair. Wow. Not to say I was popular with all the girls, but I went from getting no attention at all to quite a few of them hovering around me constantly.
Interesting comment. Although Girls/Women have always persued me to a certain extent, with Long Hair they are all over the place as if I am attracting them with a magnet or something. But one has to remember that Women today for the most part have no choice except for the very short Haircut-fad which has been going on for years. Perhaps in many of their eyes it is just natural for them to see what Nature has intended for the Human Species for Men..........and so they gravitate towards what is most natural and is suppose to be there. To go contrary to Nature usually is not the greatest idea as we see over and over throughout history.
Here's a few chunks from a paper I wrote a year ago on the social implications of facial and crainal hair.
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Restrictions against male hair presence are so common and so firmly entrenched within our cultural norms that most of us take them for granted. We hardly consider the extent to which men must go to feel respected in modern American society. Indeed, the prototypical man who is "dressed for success" has literally hidden every square inch of hair producing skin except for his hands, face and head. A man's hands produce only minimal amounts of hair and, at any rate, are easily ignored. If he follows our social norms, a man removes his facial hair every morning by scraping a sharp metal blade across his facial skin. He also makes regular visits to a barber who he pays to cut his cranial hair to a length that is typically no longer than about three inches on top and tapers to nothing over the ears and shirt collar.
“When we see a bare faced, five year-old boy with short, greased down hair, we comment on how he looks so much the part of the "little man." If we acknowledge, however, that facial hair is natural to the adult male's face, and that short hair is a classic sign of subservience, we see that it would be more appropriate to comment on how the typically presented business man has so much the look of a little boy. “ – Raj Singh in The Significance of Male Hair
It is the norm in many cultures, such as the Jewish Orthodoxy, Sunni Muslims, Native Americans and some African peoples, for men to wear their hair long. A cursory glance at any old National Geographic magazine will confirm that male human hair actually grows in length if uncut. “Individual men place great value on their own hair as habitually presented, and social-psych research shows that we [actually] hold bearded men in more positive regard than bare-faced men. Further, we see long-haired men as being dominant and unbowed, and religious prohibitions against haircutting and/or shaving are not uncommon among the world's religions.” – D.K. Kentsmith in his article, “The rape of the lock revisited” in Psychiatric Quarterly, 1973.
Yet, on the more practical level, in America, we largely demand that men present with bare faces and shorn cranial hair if they are to obtain meaningful and gainful employment and are to be presumed good, productive members of society; therein lies the proverbial rub.
Raj Singh poses the question, “Do we speak of requiring a man to get a "haircut" if, for example, he is to be considered a good prisoner, soldier, or worker, or should we admit that we are requiring him to ‘cut off a bodily appendage’?
Similarly, I would pose this question: Do we say that a man can make an affirmative decision to "grow a beard," in the same way as a farmer “grows his or her crops”? Or do we say that male facial hair growth is a natural and normal occurrence, and acknowledge that men can only become and remain bare faced when they "scrape off their faces with a piece of steel" on a daily basis?
Common usage of such terms and phrases as "haircut" and "grows a beard" clearly speaks to our societal bias against males with beards or long hair. One of the ways we denigrate male hair growth is to deny that the hair we deem to be extra is a part of a man's body. We commonly say that a man with facial hair "wears" a beard, mustache, etc., reducing the import of his facial hair to that of a piece of clothing; a fashion accessory.
“We never say that a man "wears hair" if the subject cuts his head hair relatively short, but if he refrains from hair cutting we say that he "wears long hair." The clear implication is that a certain amount of cranial hair is socially desirable, indeed almost necessary, while anything more than a moderate hair presence is surplusage.”- Singh
It is acknowledged that all normal, healthy men have beards throughout their adult lives. The only question is whether they'll scrape off the visible evidence every morning. In shaving, a man reaches the status of being "clean shaven," to use a phrase that is firmly entrenched within our lexicon. The corollary phrase, of course, would be to remain "dirty bearded." The phrase "clean cut" takes this concept a step further and implies that if a man does not cut his cranial hair to a short length and scrape his face daily, then he is unclean.
“Males express their ideologies and status in their hair,” writes Arthur Synnott, in his 1987 British Journal of Sociology study, Shame and Glory, the sociology of hair. He continues, “In ancient times, the Teutons or Germanic tribes refrained from hair cutting and shaving in order to clearly differentiate themselves from their forcibly shorn slaves. This was also the case for the Celts. In this day, long hair and facial hair are often seen to be symbolic of ideological opposition to "the establishment." The allowance of facial hair by the male represents his manhood in that it differentiates him from females and children.”
People commonly make irrational personality attributions, such as those relating to intelligence, personality, and criminality, based simply on facial appearance. In his article, Impressions of the male personality as a function of beardedness in Psychology, Robert Pegrini writes the following: “Beards typically increase perceptions by others of the bearded person's intelligence, likeability, health, popularity, sensitivity to others, and sexual appeal, as well as enthusiasm, sincerity, generosity, inquisitiveness and dirtiness. Bearded men are also seen as more mature, self-confident, liberal, nonconformist and industrious. Research has shown that women find bearded men more appealing and other men ascribe to them more status, other factors being supportive. Other research shows that both young and middle aged men are seen as better looking when bearded.”
Military regimes across time and cultures have been well known to require the removal of cranio/facial hair for new members. For example, initiates of the French Foreign Legion had their hair cut down to half a millimeter; allegedly to keep them free from lice - in reality to bestow on them a feeling of nothingness. When after their basic military training they felt integrated into this establishment, they were allowed to grow their hair again. Similar practices are carried out even today in America’s armed services.
Jeffrey Rabinowitz wrote the following in the Child and Adolescent Social Work Journal: “Why do those in authority want men to shave their faces and cut their cranial hair short? It has been posited that the hair of prison inmates and soldiers is kept cut as a reminder that ‘you are not a free person and cannot do as you please with your own body.’ Shaving produces effects like other means of fostering a youthful appearance because a ‘clean-shaven’ face mimics the surface quality of the pre-pubertal face. Therefore, requiring a man to shave can have the effect of reducing his status, and his self-perception, toward that of a child. Moreover, we live in a world that has, cross-culturally and over time, viewed men collectively as being cold, aggressive, strong willed, and dangerous. Women as a class, on the other hand, have been generally presumed to be warm, submissive, obedient and nurturing. Forcing or coercing a man into daily shaving can be seen as assigning to him the less threatening, feminine role. Most to the point, and as stated earlier, because our facial presentation effects how we perceive ourselves, it can be expected to have a bearing on how we behave whenever others are present. The man, then, who presents as quasi-boy / pseudo-woman can be expected to act in the submissive, obedient, non-threatening manner that we stereotypically expect of little boys and females.”
Rabinowitz brings up the very interesting notion that hair carries gender cues. In fact, this concept can been discussed as far back in time as the 1910’s, when Sigmund Freud drew a symbolic parallel between forced hair removal and castration. “The forced removal of another's hair can also be seen as a manifestation of the extraction of reparations. Put more simply, cranial hair removal is intended to make the male an un-man and, in the case of the judicial prisoner, to obtain vengeance or pay-back for wrongs committed.”
But how do we account for the men, non-military and unconvicted, who voluntarily maintain their hair at a short length and who shave on a daily basis? First, we must acknowledge that hair removal can hardly be considered voluntary in a society where generating an income and positive regard among one's peers are somewhat dependent upon it. That said, people succumb to within-group cultural pressures to conform to an appearance expectation, even at a cost of discomfort or disfigurement, a concept broached by the social theorist Darwin. Examples found within non-European cultures include the wearing of lipdiscs, neck elongation, head molding and scarring. In America today, one needs not look long and hard to see the huge cosmetic surgery industry.
In his 1938 book, Man against himself, Dr. Karl Menninger argued for the placement of male hair cutting in the same class as the aforementioned forms of bodily mutilation. “All are arational and involve expenditures of money, time and/or the sufferance of pain that are not inconsequential. All involve processes that are tolerated at the behest of dominant social forces by which those who submit are coerced.”
It can be seen that male hair maintenance involves issues of highest personal significance. The world's religions commonly take notice of men's hair maintenance practices. They often proscribe the cutting of head and/or facial hair.
Social research is largely in agreement that bearded men are held in more positive regard than those with shaved faces. Many of the world's most commonly and highly revered religious human entities are envisioned with unshorn hair. Many of our most highly respected men of non-religious, historical importance have been bearded with long hair. Yet today, the majority of American men shave daily and keep their hair clipped short.
Raj Singh presents an interesting theory in regard to this fact. “[we] presume that men in general are domineering, willful and aggressive by nature, and these are clearly characteristics that are found to be dysfunctional in a production level employee. Women, on the other hand, are stereotypically presumed to be more docile, more amenable to following orders and accepting authority in an unquestioning manner. The clipped male seems to present the best of both genders in that, first, he is obviously a man and so brings to the employer the supposed dependability and dedication that we expect of a member of the male sex. Second, by scraping off his facial hair he communicates to the employer that he intends to be as docile and obedient as would a female be presumed to be. The validity of this hypothesis is lent support by so many of today's business women inasmuch as they are careful to appear for job interviews in clothing that is masculine on top, shirt-like blouse and suit jacket, but feminine on the bottom with a skirt short enough to expose artificially hairless legs. The cutting short of cranial hair is a further sign of male submission to, and emasculation before, the prospective employer; one needn't be a Freudian psychoanalyst to appreciate the import of the fact that the removal of cranial hair, as symbolic penectomy, has never been required of women by our society's employers, prison wardens, or military authorities.”
Though time, those in power have required their man-servants to emasculate themselves through hair removal as a demonstration of their submissiveness. We find ourselves today in a society where men commonly, and unthinkingly, deny both their manhood and personal autonomy by daily face scraping and cranial hair mutilation. As short hair and bare faces have become more and more common on working class men, a distinction has emerged supporting the presumption that those men who are unshorn are either unproductive, or far less likely, are independently wealthy or of an advanced professional position.
Do you have the whole thing somewhere? This is interesting stuff!
Devon,
I ended up presting it as an extemporaneous speech in a public speaking class. This was part of my original abstract, which was expanded in note from, and subsequently because an outline. Long answer: no, I never wrote it out in text form. Sorry.
Well, you could've at least captured it od a camcorder so you could present it on the web in mpeg format! This is interesting stuff.
I've read the Raj Singh article before and used it to effect when faced with the "get your hair cut" comments. Particulalry the underlying use of language.
I shave though, because I choose to - I tried the beard thing and I just end up with hair and eyes poking out....
You remind me of Ritchie Blackmore. Are you a Purple fan?
Now that you mention it....yup.
Along with anything Steinman, Meatloaf, Quo, Zeppelin, Journey....I could go on. ;-)
Ah, who would've guessed ;) BTW, I saw Thin Lizzy not too long ago.
I have grown my hair for the last 2 years - I'm in my 40's. I had longish hair in my late teens and early 20's. As a child I hated having my hair cut. I could never understand why boys had to have their hair cut when girls were allowed to have theirs long!
Through the years I have tended to have longer-than average hair. Overgrown mop is the best way of describing the style - but when I had it cut every few months I would have a short back and sides!
I think long hair suits me, takes years off me. Plus there is simply no reason for me to cut my hair - I have a good job, house etc, etc, so it's a sign of independence. I think long hair on men is more common now than it was 10 years ago. I wouldn't have grown my hair then - it had connotation of a remnant of a lost age of fashion, just like the shaved head is becoming now!
In the early 70's lots of men had shoulder-length hippie hair, but if they tied it back in a ponytail they could expect to be mocked, even by their long-haired friends.
In the mid 80's, short hair was 'in' for women, the kind of 'soft punk' look. Now it's definitely out.
Now long hair is definitely back in. To me it means several things - I think it suits me, it makes me feel like I'm my own man - and I seem to get more of the right kind of looks from women, even quite young ones.
As to the future - well, when I'm more grey or start losing my hair, I'll have it shorter again. At present I'm clean shaven, although I've had beards and moustaches in the past. My treat for when I'm in my 60's is to have a full white beard, combined with short hair!
Cheers, Barry
Hansi as in Hansi Kursch? If so, we both can thank the same person for inspiring us to grow long hair!
I started to grow my hair for a variety of reasons:
One, I had tried pretty much every other hairstyle and either didn't like them or was bored with the ones I did like.
Second, I wanted to have a more natural look, I didn't like the plastic-like look and feel that usually goes with having short hair.
Also, a lot of the people I look up to or did as a child, band memebers and hockey players mostly, sported long hair at one time in their life or another and I always thought they wered cool and their hair of course was too.
And finally, I wanted to be a little different than pretty much every other male that walks the face of the earth. To look as unique as I felt and still do.
But the styles are different, aren't they?
Not particularly.
I did it for a variety of reasons. At first I just thought it was be cool if I grew my hair long like the guys I saw on TV (Jericho from WWE, namely). But as I'm one year into it, I've discovered longhair is a lot more personal and almost my identity in a few ways. My neck and face are also thin, and longhair inhances my appearance, IMO.
And I wasn't as diehard and iron-willed about it at first. After frequenting the board for months, I eventually hardened my resolve and discovered more about why I like longhair. :D
Plus, just the other day a very pretty girl was playing with another longhaired friend of mine and my hair. It was great! I truly can't wait one year from now!
- Amish Guy
I think to start with it had a lot to do with the 'progressive' rock bands in the '70s (Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, etc.). At that time layered styles of long hair were the in thing, so that's what I had, but it needed combing every five minutes to look good, and never seemed to grow quite long enough. Eventually I decided to grow it out, i.e. into a blunt cut, and now it is much more manageable.
I think rebellion does have something to do with it. When people told me to cut it that made me less likely to do so. I am a very stubborn person. However, at this point I have had long or longish hair for 30 years, so I can't imagine having short hair. It just wouldn't be me.
For some reason black women seem to love my hair, which I suspect is because they would like theirs to grow straight (?).
My wife has never been all that crazy about my hair, she seems ambivalent about it, although she has long hair herself.
While sporting long hair I don't feel as if there's something missing, if you know what I mean. Plus, short hair is kind of boring and kind of cumbersome (ok, long hair can also be a bitch some times but in another way). With short hair you need to trim it all the time to keep it in style. Another reason is that I have some scars on my had because I was the rough and tumble kind when I was a kid. You can probably tell that I fell a lot during my childhood ;) Long hair is also a convenient way to hide the shape of my head, which I'm not very fond of. Aah, this couch is very nice! Can I lay down a little longer?
Id never really thought about it, but I always thought there was something cool about long hair on guys. After I got into heavy metal I saw long hair everywhere, and seems as ive never had hair over a inch or so, after watching a live concert video I just decided to leave it grow, have not gone short sinse... although I have, and will trim the ends myself when needed to remove dry bits and even it up more
No, not about rebellion. Um, I've just always liked that look - long hair & beard - ever since my early teens and I just thought "yeah, I want to look like that." There was no identification with rock stars or rebellion (that came later, at age 26... haha!) When I read something about the history of long hair on men a while back it said that short hair was mainly identified (in the west) with Roman Catholicism, the French Revolution and the corporate business world, so I thought "Bonus!" But I don't really have any meaning behind mine, I just LIKE it!!!
Armin
Thanks guys! Great to hear so many different opinions from you. Dan, that paper was quite interesting! I just hope that my preference for beardless-ness (most of the time) doesn't mean I want all guys to be docile and subservient! Kind of funny, all the Dans I know either have long hair or did at one time...curious indeed ^_^
~Jenn
I loved the long hair look growing up but really couldn't have it due to my family growing up. I went into the army and of course, I couldn't have it then. As soon as I got out, I grew it long. I have shaved it since as I unfortunately have two styles I have loved myself having and that was either no hair or very long hair. I just figured that I would grow it as long as I can one last time as I know thanks to my family genes that eventually it will go away so I might as well enjoy it while I have it. I really don't need the hair for rebellion purposes as 1. it is now back and In with people of all ages and 2. I have plenty of bodyart to take care of the rebellious side in me.
I notice girls find me interesting either way as my personality seems to draw them in but I do find it funny when I ask them if they would have come up to me in my opposite state whether they had met me with long haired or shaved head and some said they wouldn't have initially come up to me so people can be funny that way.
I'm growing my hair out for a few reasons. One of them sounds kind of stupid, but it's true... male pattern baldness runs in my family quite rampantly, so I'm trying to grow my hair out while I can. I also plainly love the look of long hair and I love the way that my hair waves the longer it grows. I first started growing my hair because of my musical interests, but it's matured beyond that into something I simply love and cherish. That may sound "gay" but to anyone who can relate with what I'm saying, it's common sense! Plus, long hair is a "catch" for attracting women. There are some girls who there who just aren't attracted to short haired men, and not being particularly attractive kind of puts me out of the game with short hair. Having long hair overrides being ugly! I'm kind of joking with this, but some of you understand me. Certain women love long hair and I love them! ;-)
LOL I'm sure you're not ugly, but for me this is true. I would rather date a man with long hair who is average looking (not hideous) than a short haired Brad Pitt clone. Most of my friends would describe me as abnormal ^_^ I am truly a hair freak
~Jenn