new thread
I've had it up to HERE! *Points at forehead* I tried growing my hair last time, but my folks were telling me it makes me look fat, my girlfriends brother got abusive and told me to get a haircut and generally I was having abuse hurled at me. I caved and got a short back & sides. I admit, I had grown it for maybe 6 months, but every time I get peer pressure it sets the whole process back. This time, I am determined to do it, but I'm asking for your help :). I have been browsing the boards for many moons and I look on you guys as mentors.
BUT!
How does one grow their hair long exactly? I just havent had it cut for approx 6 months, and its probably the first stage of my journey. I'm aiming for it to be basically jaw length or a little longer. Do i get it cut into a style to grow out or what?
I've got some Sea Kelp which (according to the health food store) helps hair growth. I havent been taking it long enough to see any results, since I take them some days and then not bother etc. Any brands or varieties of hair vitamins that work!?
Thanks for any advice.
Ok, pay attention now, because the process is actually quite complicated. Success requires determination, will power, and a good deal of patience. I bestow this knowledge only upon those who seem sincere in their search for it.
Are you certain you're ready? Very well, then... read on, my young padawan...
Don't cut it.
LOL!
*Bows gracefully* I didn't mean litterally how does one grow ones hair. My friend mentioned that you need to get maintenance cuts etc so that you train it to grow long in the style, wheras here people say just dont get it cut. Can you see my previous predicament? :P
Maintence Trims = money for the salon / sylist
No Maintence Trims = no loss in hair length
Question to stylist: "Are maintance trims nessassary?"
Answer from stylist: "Absolutely"
(You do the math)
Read this and see if you still come to the same conclusion:
http://www.deceptikons.com/calmwaters/triming.asp
I can see the point, but the trouble is we can seldom completely trust the stylist not to take too much off. It has happened to all of us. I think occasional trims are helpful, but I tend to reserve them for really major occasions, and if a second big event comes up in the same year I don't go back for another trim.
I think sometimes that we have unrealistic expectations of what a stylist can and cannot do... They cannot cut hair without taking off some of the length. Furthermore it must be frustrating as hell for them as afterall they are in a creative profession and they have to go along with everyone else's wimms and have little or no opportunity to express themselves creatively.
As a web developer working with designers everyday, I know how frustrating this can be. However its the client that ultimately dictact what they want, but clients have an annoying habit of a) not knowing exactly what they want, b) being unclear about what they want, or c) request something unpractical or downright stupid.
Particularly in case c), if your working in a creative profession, you don't want your name put to something you were forced to do that goes against everything you have every been taught or believe in. Furthermore you don't always have the option of passing up the job. So you tend to deviate and do things "right" regardless of the clients wishes and hope they like it or convince them about it later.
Whilst I wouldn't offer my hair to a stylist to satisfy her creative impluses, I do listen to what they have to do to acheive a look and before now I've suggested doing something which my stylist has advised against. She explained why and I accepted her advice. Afterall she's an expert at cutting hair not me...
Basically, the more you talk to your stylist about your hair, your goals and ask her about the techniques she uses to cut it, (ie: learn a little about hairdressing.) The more confident you can be at expressing exactly what you want and also of developing a trusting relationship with your stylist.
Quarter-inch trims are not only possible but a mark of skill to perform. What better way to show how good a stylist they are than to accept a challenge? If following the directions of their customer, and in such an irreversible way creates artistic boredom then so be it, it is part of the profession they have chosen. When it comes to a paying consumer the request is no longer a whim but specifications for the job they are to carry out. Anything other than carrying out those orders to the letter deserves not only a refusal to pay for the unwanted service but vocal complaint to the manager and anyone else within earshot.
It is not the job of a barber or hairdresser to read the customer's mind or judge if they want what they are saying they desire. The job is to do what has been discussed and ask for clarification if unsure what has been requested. The stylist can consult with the customer to make them understand that a microtrim will not reach split ends far up in the hair shaft but it is not up to them to decide this on their own for the benefit of their client. Why should it matter if they are asking for something the stylist deems dumb? They get paid either way. Make the customer happy and they return, make them mad and they do not.
The stylist can freely say, "I am an artist, I will not waste my lauded skills on what you ask of me. Find a barber instead." But do they? I'd say it is worth it to pass up a job if it is beneath them when the alternative is to impose their vision at the expense of another. With web development you can still scrap your masterpiece if the customer refuses to accept your informed guidance. When it is a haircut that was not asked for, the consequences come at the customer's cost stylistically in the form of a look they did not request which they must wear instead of how they wish to look. In addition time has been lost which can never be recovered in some cases. Anyone who would so thoughtlessly impose their "improvements" on the customer's request lacks integrity and compassion.
I'd say it is the mark of a job done right when it takes no convincing to make somebody accept the job that has been completed. Particularly with hair, there is no recourse when a client refuses to be badgered into swallowing the stylist's con job about how much better they look thanks to the unasked improvements. While it will not be a big deal to most people to lose more hair than asked, it will be for some and the stylist has no right to make that call for a person without asking beforehand.
When it comes to self image, you are the expert in how you wish to appear. Again being informed is the key. The customer should always have the choice to say they know the look will not be just like whatever they have pictured but the length removed is non-negotiable.
I agree talking is the key, and confidence goes a long way toward protecting yourself, especially when the talking seems to happen while cutting is going on. Somebody bold enough to walk out of that salon when the first hair hits the ground inches longer than asked will do just fine.
The way some people do dismiss all haircutters as untrustworthy saddens me because it is of course an overgeneralization that will not fit many people in that profession. However, for some people their hair is too valuable to mess about with so taking it seriously is a necessity. It may not be something you have experienced but there are people out there that will impose their vision on others and at no cost to the stylist, only the betrayed customer.
Elizabeth
Thanks for picking up the thread Elizabeth, I always enjoy hearing form you. :-)
In a perfect world you'd be completely 100% correct. But the practicallities are somewhat different.
If you as the customer are too paranoid or pendantic, you can seriously effect someones confidence and there ability to do their job. (Equally they must respect your boundaries.)
But when a client starts telling which image to put where on a web page and I dissagree with them because I know it wont work visually. I feel like handing them a copy of FrontPage and telling them to p*** off and do it themselves. I know there are a number of stylists who would love to hand over the sisscors and let the client cut there own hair.
What's more, they can't be seen to take too long over a job and clear every snip with the client as they'd just get fired, also if the client asks for something awful, a lot of stylists are under pressure to ensure that nobody attributes a bad cut to their salon. Equally they can't turn around to the client and say: "I'm sorry Sir, but we don't cut mullets here... you'll have to go down the road to Salon that doesn't care about its public image". (OK I exageratte but you see my point.)
Ulitimately you're judged by your work, and whilst almost every stylist wants to give the client the style they want, they are inevitably going to bring their own skill and knowledge into the equation, and they often have to bring some interpretation of what the client is asking, as most people don't know the terminology nor can explain exactly the style they want.
I'm glad you agree you can't lay all the blame at the stylists feet, but I think its unrealistic to talk about 1/4 trims (unless you are trimming every 6 weeks) because even with technical precision, over longer periods of time different hairs will grow at different rates. So to trim such a small amount would be worthless as you'd get no benefit from the cut other than to loose a 1/4 of an inch... I mean hell you might as well not bother!
I'm lucky, I have a stylist who does thing pretty much exactly as I say... but I know enough about hairdressing (the jargon & theory - I'm a shaking wreak with a pair of sisscors,) that I can communicate clearly what I have in mind, and hell occasionally she gets thing wrong. Last time she cut my she left one side of my fringe (can you call it that at 6 inches) 1/4 inch longer than the other. It was probably my fault... maybe I sat with my head tilted... I dunno, but I'm not gonna scream blue murder about it.
More times than not the reason the client doesnt get what they want out of a salon is because they are not clear about it. If you dont know the jargon, then take a photo but be aware that your hair type will probably be different and inspite of the cut, you might not look exactly like the photo. And there a possibility that what you want might not be possible by only taking 1/4 inch.
I always tell my stylist: "Take as much as NECCESSARY but as LITTLE as possible." and if this your first time with a stylist I'd advise you to tell them your final goal too!
This gives the stylist room to breath and lets them know that you dont want to loose the length you have. Its a fair as you can be... but at the end of the day, if your worried about it, don't trim until you have an inch to loose. Then one day you'll be surprised when you walk out of the salon with more hair than you thought!
Your uptopian idea of honest and open communication, nice though it is, doesn't and is unlikely to exist, simply because humans (flawed as we are,) dont have the neccessary skills to make it work!
Thanks Sorted, I am having fun too, especially since I have never even gotten a trim in 16 years. I have no personal experience with stylists whatsoever. It is all the wording of others that I base this on.
I am a kindergarten teacher, I deal with building the world as it should be and not how it actually is. :-) I do tend to think of best possible cases and desire people live up to those. Seeing you make excuses for the mistakes of your haircuts do make me want to bring you a least a little closer to my point of view. If the fringe is uneven you think you may have sat a little tilted instead of wishing she double checked her work before declaring you finished.
While reading it occured to me we are talking about different kinds of maintainance trims, relatively early on, while growing out, or to keep at a desired length. The less hair you start with the shorter the time to recover from any mistakes. When I worry about a haircutter getting overzealous I am thinking more along the lines of a waist length guy discovering the minor trim to keep an even line ends up being six inches because the stylist took it upon herself to remove all the perceived slpit ends unasked then attempting to convince the irate guy that it was in his best interests.
Even worse are the really rare nutcases that have a vendetta against long hair. My boyfriend spent an interesting airplane ride beside one of these people once. Being lazy I'll just pull it out and repost it here. It originally was over at the TLHS message board dedicated to women's hair. I can only think if this woman had such a strong reaction to women's hair she would just about keel over and die to see the men here.
Elizabeth
"This is something I posted back in September 2000 on the e-list, since slightly edited for reposting. I thought I'd put it up here so a new group of people could be amazed by my experience. We've all heard of long hair encounters- this is a more depressing encounter, an anti-long hair encounter:
On a recent flight, I found myself seated next to a hairdresser. I struck up a conversation, and I mentioned one of the women on this site who has beautiful knee-length hair. The hairdresser was unhappy at this, and stated that she is "totally against" such hair. She asked if this person'shair was healthy, and I said yes. She told me that she can't stand long hair that thins out towards the ends. I gathered that she sees such hair as "unhealthy". Of course, her own hair was permed, bleached, and just plain “fried” from all that abuse. How ironic...
She went on to say that whenever she sees long hair she just wants to cut it all off, and that this is a control issue for her (!). That's why she now only colors hair rather than cutting it... which in turn suggests that she has victimized long-haired women in the past while being their hairdresser, and enough so for this to be a problem and require a change in her work. Yikes!
When I mentioned that I had once had my own hair down to my waist, she looked at me like I was downright repulsive, and crazy as well. Three years later, I can still remember the disgusted look in her eyes... I'm glad I've only had one experience like this!
Bill D."
Sorry Electros Didnt see your post thought it was just me and Elizabeth still harping on... ;-)
It would appear there are a few nuts with sisscors out there... but if people like you keep doing the right thing and move on whenever you encounter them, we'll get by. The trick is always to trust the person cutting your hair. Once you have that down, you need to talk and makesure you understand one another. Only then should the siscors be used.
I think this thread is dead but for our rather off topic discussion here. We probably need to chat more about stylists in a seperate thread. But Anyway I think I need to make one last comment before moving on.
12 months ago I would have never been able to live with this situation, (see http://www.deceptikons.com/calmwaters/OCD.asp) The fact that nowadays I can, for me is a great personal acheivement.
I try and adopt a more philosophical outlook these days and I try to see the good and the imperfections in everyone, I see the good in my stylist and I know she isn't perfect, to expect her to be perfect would be unrealistic and unfair. So maybe she should have checked, or maybe I was sat with my head tilted. Eitherway, it wasn't a train smash. The point is, whilst no-one is perfect, I think people like the hairdresser you describe are in a minority. Afterall anyone like that wont stay in the industry long with they?
Sorted
I have read it and it's great for someone who has a stylist they can trust and one who dies not see dollar signs with excessive maintenance trims.
I don't think that every guy I see with awesome long hair got it by having maintenance trims ... I think they just let it grow. IMHO
The best way to grow your hair out is to coax the strands out with a vaccum cleaner... you can achieve 3 inches growth a month this way
next best way is to rub a live sea bass on your scalp 4 times a week
j/k ;)
The only real suggestion I have is to just let it grow... it'll be worth it in the end.
Also if people are hassling you, just ignore them. If you are happy yourself and growin it is what you want to do, then dont cave and cut your hair. At the end of the day it is your decision to grow it out and only you have the right to say whether you keep growing it or not (unless you are in the army, coz then "they" own your hair).
Good luck