new thread
Yes, I did get the haircut. Due to extremely difficult personal problems (not church related), I feel the need to rekindle my spirituality and for me that involves church fellowship and ministry. I know this is hard for many of you to understand and I am a tormented soul over it BUT I ask that you respect my decision.
I am not saying I'll never grow my hair out again but for now this is how it has to be.
I posted the following over at the buzzboard. Many over there are actually quite open minded about long hair and I have enjoyed an interchange with them also:
First off, I want to FROM MY HEART thank the many, many kind people here and elsewhere that have offered me a great amount of support and personal e-mails. Sorry if I haven't been able to answer all personally yet.
I set off for a "traditional" barber shop that I had been to probably 18 years ago. It is now defunct with only the red and white barber pole left.
I then to another shop I had been to as a child. Who is sitting in one of the chairs but one of my church elders! Can you believe it? I was kind of embarrassed because my hair was all over the place without product.
Anyway, a lady with an open chair invited me over. I was kind of messed up over having met the elder but I mumbled what I wanted.
I said 1/8 inch on the sides and taper to about an inch on top. She seemed incredulous.
The experience was quite negative. She seemed really put out that this was such a big makeover and would take extra time. She even charged me extra at the end.
I had to tell her to keep going shorter and then she finally refused at the end - the nerve. It's still pretty short but I may fool around more with it at some point.
I pretty much followed the 2 week rule as I first wanted to get the cut when I my problems first began 15 days ago. This was VERY hard for me because all I said about wanting long hair is 100% true. But there comes a time in life when we must look at the big picture and conform for the greater good. I'll see if this turns out to be the case in my life.
Hair does continue to grow so this is not irreversible though for the moment it appears that way. Thanks again everyone!
For anyone who want to look:
Stanley,
Your message was good up until you entered the blob about "conform". It leaves room for argument, but I am not going to argue it, instead...best wishes to you!
We do encourage people to look at the big picture here. The big picture is that we don't have to conform to a small segment (or big segment) of society just because they want us to. As adults we make our own decisions and if we have found ourselves in a situation where our own choices are not valued then we may have to make a very big decision that can change our life as we know it to get out of that situation so that we can remain in charge of our own lives. Happens all the time.
Since we don't know the details of your personal life we'll assume that you are making the best choice for yourself but it sounds like it became more than just choices about hair length.
Have faith in yourself first, Stanley!
Didn't jesus have long hair..?
"Didn't jesus have long hair..?"
Must we keep bringing this up? Is it even slightly relevant?
I assume the guy is christian/catholic and if he cut his hair becuase of pressure from religious athority, I find it ironic that the very person that is worshiped (or the commonly accepted western image of him) was a long hair.
Nope. Despite it having been said numerous times on this board that we have no idea what he looked like, people still keep referring to the renaissance images as definitive likenesses. They ain't, they are the products of the imagination of Michealangelo and co.
While Stanley must do what he feels is best for him (and good luck with whatever that decision) this discussion reminds me why I utterly abhor all forms of organised religion.
Boy, am I ever with you on that one!
I agree with what Mark has written here. I will point out though, that often it is the same churches that insist on short hair for men as a form of religious conformity who hang these Rennaissance pics of Jesus with long hair all over their buildings and teach small children that this is what Jesus looks like. Regardless of whether the historical Jesus had long hair, the confounding damage is still done.
Robert
I think it's about the church telling people to cut off their hair. Maybe Jesus had long hair because there was no church to tell him to get a hair cut. Thus, the church maybe leading people astray, as the Bible has predicted.
"Must we keep bringing this up? Is it even slightly relevant?"
I suppose it IS relevant to a point, I just get tired of having to expose false assumptions (i.e. Such as if 'Jesus Christ' is actually even historic at all). I don't like going into this at a long haired board though. Kinda see my point here?
Even though, as you say, it is revelant to a point since people are making decisions or having decisions made for them based on it.
Probably not. Though a modern western artist's depiction of a caucasian "Jesus" did.
We really don't know but under levitical law (which Christ was subject to) Jewish men were forbidden to "cut the corners of your temple, or destroy the corners of your beard" and to this day Hasidic Jewish men have two long locks of hair, one on each side of the head, right above the ear (Jedi style)
While long hair looked good on you, but personal favorite haircuts on you were from the following dates: July 12, 2002; July 26, 2002; September 13, 2002; and the blond spikes from December 20, 2002. If you feel inclined to keep your hair short, why not just experiment with these types of different hair cuts and colors? Honestly, you look just as good with a good cut than you do with longer hair, in my opinion. You have a good head of thick hair that looks good either long or short.
BUT! And this a huge but... Do what YOU want, first and foremost.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do, Stan. :)
Based on your web page, you obviously are very much into the style of your hair. But I wonder if there aren't other issues affecting that subject with you? I ask because you talk about conforming to the culture of your religion and also about struggling with the "2 week rule." If so, then are those the reasons you insisted on not just getting your hair cut, but getting it cut very short (almost as extreme as what you did over a year ago)?
Maybe you read so much into the way you wear your hair and how others (church folk in particular) look at you based on your hair, and are so much into that aspect of yourself, that you'll never be really comfortable with it, whether it's worn short or certainly whether its worn very long.
I now must agree that something unusual is going on with Stanley. Like many here, I have poured my heart out to him, and this all started when he appeared here with those same issues over four years ago. Four years is a long time. A man his age can go all the way through college in four years, so one can expect a lot of growth on an issue of importance to a man in that amount of time. With Stanley, on this issue we've seen none.
Some of us deal with the "shall I grow it" issue for many years, but once all the cards are on the table the decision for yea or nay doesn't take very long. All these cards were laid out in 1999.
No one needs web support to get an ordinary shorthaired man's haircut. People who will support him on that decision are everywhere. No one needs help to seek out a barber shop. They are everywhere. Yet, Stanley has gone over to the Buzzboard to fret about his hair. And then he has gotten a haircut so short that his church apparently won't like it and even his barber tried to dissuade him from getting it.
My conclusion is that Stanley does not want long hair, and Stanley does not want short hair. He wants people to fret about his hair. For him, the "ordinary shorthaired man's haircut" is the awkward stage. It must be hell for him each time his buzz cut grows out and nobody hassles him about his hair for awhile.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are a perfect religion for Stanley, because they are willing to play his game and fret about his hair. That is not why most people join the Jehovah's Witnesses though. Most people select that faith because they want to spread Bible Truths.
Sorry to be a bit hard on you at this point, Stanley, but the time has come for some "tough love". It's time for you to sort out what is important to you and then run with it. You've been stuck in this quagmire for way too long.
Do I EVER agree with Bill, here (whom I look up to on issues such as these). It's almost as if Stanley and some other JW's I have met with are actually looking for a struggle, a fight to battle so that it keeps them on their toes. This is NOT meant to a put down in the least to Stanley, and I realize his pain is honest, and I know also know a great share of non-religious people who pull this trick much too often.
All I can ask is that is this; isn't it time to put down the guns and end this inner war?
Where are you getting 4 years from? I wasn't even online then. I set up my web page in the spring of 2001.
Incorrect, see above.
Just because my preferred hair style is long, doesn't mean that I like in-between boring hair styles either. Part of me would rather get something very short than just boring medium. So when I do cut, I often end up going this way. This changes nothing of what length I would have given no external influences.
Ouch. So you can read my heart, can you? That is why I joined this religion - to get attention about my hair? Now do you REALLY believe that?
Sometimes, in times of stress, we turn to our roots and our core beliefs. I am in such a period right now. And, despite my love for long hair, there ARE more important things in life and the grand scheme of things.
I am quite frankly disappointed in you.
Where are you getting the idea that I will be persecuted for short hair cut. If anything, I'll be embraced for it. I never said anything about any problems with my church and with short haircuts. Some Witnesses even shave their heads.
I was embarrassed to see the elder because I walked into the shop and my long hair was all over place because I didn't use product. Usually my hair is combed neater when appearing for church functions but I didn't think it would necessary to do this just going to the barber.
Perhaps you just misunderstood me.
I'm very happy with Bill's ongoing support for long hair. He seems to have principles that stand the test of time for year after year, unlike some (but not all) church members who seem to keep changing their position time after time.
Our earliest e-mail about all these topics is timestamped Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:32:02 EST by my e-mail program. You were using a hotmail address back then. That is over four years ago - do the math. My, how time flies when we're having fun.
However, in reality I don't see that you've been having much fun, and four years is a long time to be in that state. Make a decision and get on with your life, man.
People will only fret about your hair if it has changed. You are engaged in a program - whether by design or not - to maximize the fretting over your hair by others. There are two lengths that will get you the most comments - skinhead and awkward phase - and you are oscillating between them as fast as you can. Over and over. Grow it long, cut it way off, grow it out. Rinse and repeat. It is always changing so people will forever be commenting on it.
Many of the guys here can tell you that once you grow your hair out to a long length and just leave it there, that the comments go way down. Often they quit altogether. If you really want to get some peace about your hair, rather than get constant turmoil, just grow it out until it is the length you want and then LEAVE IT THAT LENGTH. People will get bored with talking about your hair and you won't hear any more about it.
Do you? I wanted you to think about that. And also that the congregation is unwittingly playing sucker to your game by constantly bringing up your hair. The best thing they could do to test your faith is to never mention your hair. Then everyone could find out whether it's the Bible talk or the hair talk at the kingdom hall that really motivates you to keep going back for more.
Not only do you have your congregation playing your game, you have the buzzboard crowd and the hyperboard crowd chiming in too. That's a LOT of people in a tizzy over your hair. Your congregation has far more important work to do, and so do we. I won't speak for the buzzboard. :-)
In 1999 you told me you've wanted long hair ever since childhood. I'd agree that identity arises in childhood and doesn't change. Bible Truths arose before you were born and they never change. NOTHING here is CHANGING. How many YEARS must you stare at this question before writing a simple number in the blank? I will have my hair _______ inches long.
What, for caring about you enough that I hope that you SOMEDAY find peace? All the cards have been turned face up on the table in front of you for four years. Four years is way too long to decide on a haircut.
I had forgotten about those discussions before I set up my site. Sorry about that.
Apparently you didn't read my other post. I don't get persecution from having short hair. In fact, no elders talked to me about me long hair. My concern is that EVENTUALLY it would become an issue.
Like I said before, often times if I make a decision to cut, then I make it a big, drastic cut - what of it? I don't get persecution for it. I just like to do it that way. What is the big deal?
I am having some personal problems in my life right now and need the counsel of my congregation. Since they feel more comfortable with the shorter hair, I've chosen to go that way. There are pluses and mimuses to everything. Would I love to have very long hair? Yes. Absolutely. Is that the MOST important thing to me? NO. Does it mean I'm still going to feel some hurt when I cut? Yes.
It really isn't that hard to figure out.
Well since I have obtained more information on this situation, I feel the need to comment. My entire life, I have always made drastic changes to my hair. I have worn just about every single style you can imagine more than once. From perms to completely bald. The fact of the matter is, you do get attention this way and I would have to assume you do as well. They may be subtle comments like: Wow! stanley, I didn't even recognize you...Everytime I see you, you look completely different. So to say that you never get any talk about your hair, well I don't believe that. Now I have made another drastic change about my hair...growing it long. The longer I grow it, the less people talk about it, because the change is no longer frequent, nor drastic. You can almost say, it is boring now. But I like long hair, always have and am happy to keep it this way for a long time.
Your religion has nothing to do with your hair length Stanley. People help people everyday, I know because I see it everyday. All walks of life, receiving and giving help to others. Everyone has some levels of stress, some have even more than you, but they all don't go out and change their hair to get through issues in their life.
Your married, you already said that your wife supported your decision with your hair, I mean who else's approval is needed?
4 Years Stanley??? I agree with Bill totally.
Here is a key quote from Stanley's earlier post:
"In fact, no elders talked to me about me long hair. My concern is that EVENTUALLY it would become an issue."
All along, I had assumed that he had been talked to by whoever in his church and that they had "made him" cut it. In fact, he brought this upon himself, due to the fear that "eventually" it would become an issue. I had written Stanley earlier, when he was considering leaving his religion so he could have long hair, to not even consider that until it became an issue, and to just go on and do good things for his church and continue his ministry. I am sure whatever good deeds he does would continue regardless of his hair length, as his hair always looked fine. Then, if the church elders were going to make him cut it, they would at least need some evidence that his hair was impeding the performance of his mission within the church as a rationale for him to cut it.
Although I am certainly not a psychologist (and I don't even play one on TV), the fact that he cut before it even became an issue indicates that he must not be very self-assured or something. He cut out of fear that it might "EVENTUALLY" become an issue. The best way to make an issue over something like this is to create the issue yourself, before anyone else does. I therefore agree with Bill also. This is an issue of Stanley's inability to decide for himself how he wants to look and to have that inner self-confidence about it so he can "just do it" (as Nike says).
Perhaps some therapy from a mental health professional outside his church would help, but I think we should all pray for him and hope that he can develop the self-confidence he needs to be at peace with himself, so he does not have to worry so much about what others think to the point that he obsesses over issues that haven't even made themselves known yet. He must feel very tormented right now, and I feel sorry for him. Most all the other hair cuttings we read about on this board happen AFTER a confrontation has already occurred (e.g., parental strife, boss at work gives ultimatum, etc.).
Bill is correct in that Stanley's behavior is drawing more attention to himself and to his hair than if he just let it grow, while continuing to be the best member of his church that he can be. What church elder is really going to kick one of their most faithful members out over the length of their hair, especially when kept as neat as Stanley's? If they do, shame on them. If he really got kicked out over that, it would be much for the better, IMHO.
Al
No, particularly not after this posting!
"EVENTUALLY it would become an issue"?
Eventually? Based on your claims previously, I was prepared to believe at least a few people, or at least one important one, in your church had started making negative comments or jokes about your hair, if not already outright pressuring you to change your looks.
"I just like to do it that way"?
OK, but if a person truly likes wearing his hair long, doesn't an extreme shearing session at the barbershop put him even farther away from that style? We're all allowed on occasion to be a contradiction in terms, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense.
After your posting above, I'm now even more confident that Bill (and yours truly, for that matter) was correct in some of his (and my) armchair psychoanalyzing.
You may be getting to the heart of the matter (IMHO).
Stanley does write below that he prefers extremes in the way he wears his hair. I still think if he was that much into non-conformity or surprising people with his appearance, and if he really preferred long hair, he'd resist outer and inner voices telling him to cut, cut, cut, and say to hell with them.
His web site shows he's really into documenting almost every minute change in his hair style. OK, here's some psychobabble, but I wonder if he unconsciously equates the length of his hair with forces of good and bad (sort of like that struggle which dominates the theme of Lord of the Rings?). He may see the way he wears his hair as a reflection of his inner impulses, both positive & negative. If so, I'd say he's probably reading more into his hair style than even his peer group is doing, including those in his church. In other words, he may be more self conscious (& obsessed) about his hair than anyone else is, and thinks it makes a bigger statement than it really does.
Am Am A Golden God. I make my own rules on hair you should too
I know I'll probably be excoriated on this board for saying this,
but: gee, guys, it's only hair. Sure it takes a long time to grow
and looks really cool. But if I had to give up one of the following:
1. My hair
2. My self-esteem
3. The person I love
4. My children
5. My life
6. My health
7. My god or my church (some people might add)
That's a no-brainer. Bring on the shears. We'd like not to have
to make that decision, but life isn't always fair. Now, Stanley,
if you also had to give up your self-esteem in the process,
I'd be very, very sad for you.
But if I had to give up one of the following:
Sorry, i don't understand what you mean by this. Are you saying if there was a chance you could loose your hair because you are growing it long then you'd get it cut...?
How about this list:
1. My hair
2. My chocolate
3. The computer for a week
4. My copy of the Lord of the Rings
5. My good name in the coupon shoppers club
6. My copy of Buns of Steel
7. My day dreams about fame & fortune
That's a no-brainer. It ain't the shears.
If you are going to make a list there is no need to slant it against hair.
; )
lol I love your posts, whether they are being serious or comical. You are the greatest, nice hair too :P
By the way BlackMetal666, you might get a kick out of this:
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72537
This is a bit silly really - but I'll play along.
You can delete number 7 to start with - I detest all religions equally so that's a no-brainer. I won't ever be cutting my hair for them and giving it up was a relief.
My family have differing opinions, from support (my wife) to disapproval (my mother) and everything between. So why should I need to cut my hair because of my family and loved ones? Certainly there is no conflict that means I would be losing them requiring a choice of family or hair. So, delete number 3 and by inference number 4 (I don't have children).
How will cutting my hair affect my health????? Or, more to your point, why would I need to make a choice? Chemotherapy, perhaps? Hair loss is a temporary side effect, so you may have a minor point there. However, providing you survive the cancer, the hair loss is only temporary and can be grown again - so it isn't really such a choice. So, delete that, too.
Number 5 - er, why would that be affected by my hair and how would altering my hair affect my life? Or, not cutting it cost me my life? Delete that, too.
So we are left with self esteem. Image, i.e. self image and self esteem are intertwined. I like myself better with long hair, so the shears can go away.
Not much left of that list, is there?
Ok, be spirtual,but why do you need to cut your hair to do that? If the people in your church can't accept you for who you are, why hang out with them? Sounds like they are hypocritical, if they can't accept you as you are.
Once again this is why i can't stand organized religions, they allways brain wash people into what they want via acceptance, or rejection, and pressureing tactics. ( I am not directing this at you in particular, just in general)
What kind of personal problems do you have? I have had a ruff year my self, and talking to others acctually helps. I have had my mom go throught finding out she has cancer, to then having a limb amputatiion, myself haveing a car wreck, the fact that I may be laid off at the end of the month, due to major cut backs were I work, and trying to decide if I should persue a relationship with an old friend, ect. Never once have I thought of cutting my hair to solve any of my problems, even when a lot of freinds and relatives think I should.
right........on!!!!!!
Well, they believe that "god" made your hair and since he made it to grow it is therefore wrong to let it grow. Clear now? ; )
Amen, brother.
If I had to choose a theme song to coincide with my views about religion and society in general, this would be it. I've bold-faced my favorite verse:
"I Don't Want To Change The World"
by Ozzy Osbourne
Standing at the crossroads,
World spinning round and round
Know which way I'm going,
You can't bring me down
Don't you try and teach me no original sin
I don't need your pity for the shape I'm in
I don't wanna change the world
I don't want the world to change me
I don't want to change the world
I don't want to world to change me
Tell me I'm a sinner I got news for you
I spoke to God this morning and he don't like you
For telling all the people the original sin
He says he knows you better than you'll ever know him
I don't wanna change the world
I don't want the world to change me
I don't want to change the world
I don't want to world to change me
You know it ain't easy
You know it ain't fair
So don't try and please me
Because I really don't care
Don't tell me stories
'Cause yesterday's glories
Have gone away, so far away
I've heard it said there's light up ahead
Lord I hope and pray
I'm here to stay
Tell me I'm a sinner I got news for you
I spoke to God this morning and he don't like you
Don't you try and teach me no original sin
I don't need your pity for the shape I'm in
I don't wanna change the world
I don't want the world to change me
I don't want to change the world
I don't want to world to change me
I don't wanna change the world
I don't want the world to change me
I don't want to change the world
I don't want to world to change me
YES!!!! I agree!!! This is the appropriate lyrics/song that I listen to when I hear baptist ministers and American members of the Talaban (There seems to be many in the USA. Are they coming over here from Afganastan?) who discourage long hair on boys/men. Also, have you seen the commercial for Miller Light Beer where people are falling like dominos? At the end of the commercial, one smart guy steps out of line and stops the chain reaction. The slogan: "You can stand in line and get the same thing everyone else is getting, OR you can CHOOSE what you want". When I saw this commerical and heard the slogan, I though about how it relates to hair length on guys. America ---Freedom to choose, and freedom to express!!! And no one has the authority to take these freedoms away.
Stanley,
First and foremost, I honor you and your own integrity. And I mean that.
I will also tell you that I recognize the anguish underneath what you write even though I don't know the details (and don't need to). I am 44 and until two years ago my entire adult life has been spent in church service and ministry, either as an ordained clergyman or as a teacher.
Two years ago after the culmination of many events over several years I became very clear that belonging to the tribe of religion was not only not nourishing and serving my life, but was actually destructive to it--mostly on an emotional level. I am also trained and educated in health related fields enough to know that what is taking toil on us emotionally will finally express itself in disease of the body.
In short, I left the tribe (church). It was the best decision I have made in my adult life.
I am not sharing this to say, therefore, that this is what you ought to do. But I do share it to say that the tribes we belong to will exact some price from us an individuals in order to remain in the tribe. Being who we are; honoring our own integrity; listening to the wisdom that is already within us must be forsaken to some degree or another if we wish to remain in the tribe. Hair length is just one of the places that the tribe will attempt to exact its price.
I have also learned what I suspected and really knew all those years that I was "in service and mininstry to others": until I honor and respect my own integrity, I cannot truly honor or respect anyone else. Tribes cannot see this. Tribal energy is often the energy of fear--the fear that if it allows for individual expression, the tribe will be destroyed. It usually won't. It will just change the tribe. Fear is not visionary.
Take care of yourself, Stanley. It looks like you have a very supportive community here. I wish you well.
Robert
Well,
I can honestly say that I know you better than most people in cyberspace and I truly understand the things that are happening in your life. Not that any of that needs to be broadcasted to the masses. It truly is only hair and you have shown time and again that you have the will power to let it grow. Thus the pages will continue to turn and you will continue to evolve into the person you were meant to be.
ck.
P.S. Jesus was the color of water, as it should be.
Stanley,
Sounds like you got alot on your plate. Take care of yourself and do whatever you have to do to make yourself happy. You can always grow it back if you wish...and to me half the fun is embarking on the journey, as I have a few times!
Best of luck to you and I hope that we'll see you pop up on the Board from time to time!
Brett
If you feel better about yourself & your Life,
then you have made the 'right' decision.
Sometimes it may be necessary to 'fit in'--for whatever reason.
Perhaps, right now, shorter hair will work for you and achieve
the results you're looking for. So be it and good luck, then.
If it is true that Longhairs, in general, tend to be more
sensitive individuals...then all here may give their congratulations
on your making the correct decision for YOU.
As to whether or not Jesus had long hair...well, I am inclined to believe
that his hair was not short since that would have involved MANY trims,
and from everything do know about Jesus, one thing is for certain:
He was not a vain man.
(Which probably means he also wore a beard!)
Thanks for your 'testimony.'
If you are always getting your hair cut, what's the point in having geocities.com/stanleybey ???
When I visited your website a while ago, I remember there was a poll/feedback section, one of the responses to which was 'This site is the product of a troubled mind' or similar wording. I voted for that option. I don't know if you meant this humourously or were un/consciously touching on the truth.
My own view, for what worth, is that you are, indeed, a very troubled soul and that all this change and uncertainty regarding your hair is but a symptom of the turmoil going on underneath the hair. Going on a spiritual journey is to be applauded but I have to agree with the other posts here that question the value of a 'fellowship' that won't/can't accept you with long hair.
'To Thine Own Self Be True' is a cliche but true nevertheless (well it'd better be - I've got it tattooed across my chest)! If the truth for you is to have short hair then fine, go with that truth. Given your earlier posts here and the fact that you have gone to all the time and trouble to create a website devoted to this issue I suspect that the truth for you is actually very different.
I wish you all the best for the future.
Laurence
to whose misfortune does that allude?
if the change symbolizes a step in the right direction spiritually then you should be celebrating it.
should your life's journey permit you the luxury of experimenting with new looks and longer hair in the future then i'm sure this community will still be here to support and encourage.
*That's exactly what I was thinking, but couldn't put it to paper. Thanks!*
I'm sorry you felt that the price of rekindling your spirituality, which is essentially an inner journey, was to change your outer appearance, especially considering that you seem to have treasured your long hair. I hope you find what you're looking for and will one day feel free to grow your hair again. Good luck.
Stanley,
We never really interacted on the board so I hope you'll forgive me saying I this if it seems a little too upfront. But you need a new path!
You obviously are really keen on growing your hair, and the idea of doing so is obviously very important to you. Afterall its what your web site is all about! You obviously DESIRE long hiar
You believe your Church and your beliefs are not compatible with your desire, yet you never really put it to the test... I don't think you'll ever be truely happy until you get this Long Hair bug out of your system, by actually seeing this thing thru! (And you were doing really well!)
Stop bouncing your emotions around and beating yourself up. DO THE DEED GROW YOUR HAIR and I can guarantee people that REALLY care about you will look after your emotional and spiritual needs regardless.
No offence but you sound like you are compromising yourself just to fit in... thats no way to happiness.