new thread
I am about eight months into growing my hair out from a very short, with "sandpaper feel around the ears and base", cut and am now in the dreaded "bad hair phase". All hairs are aprox 3" - 4" long, thereby giving a disheveled, shaggy, and layered appearance. (Too short to pull back, but too long to style well.) In addition, my medium blond hair is "baby fine" and very straight - until the last 3/4" - 1", which wants to flip out or up or in. Now that the warm, humid weather is here, the flip is getting worse.
However, here is my major concern: Next week I have a major business meeting as well as an important wedding to attend (unfortunately, not mine). As such I feel required to get a trim, but am not certain exactly what to tell the stylist. I want a professional style, but do not whether to give up all of the length to get rid of the unruly ends. I am concerned that if explained wrong, she will cut too much away. (BTW-I have tried all of the straightening methods, as well as ironing the ends, listed in other posts, but they only work until the humidity kicks in.)
Do you have any suggestions on what I should tell my stylist? When I initially decided to grow my hair out, she ignored my "leave it longer" statement and became scissors happy, thereby leaving me with a cut shorter than my old "normal" version. Since then she has responded better, but does not always understand what "Take a 3/8 - 1/2" off at the bottom and leave the top hairs longer" is. Finding another stylist is not a good choice as I live in a small community and have already tried the other three. The local $5 for the "anything longer than an inch is to long" barbers are all that are left. (The next largest city is 40 miles away, and I have no leads there.) Wearing a hat is not an option either. Keep in mind that I still want some length, but definitely need some "structure and style".
Is there a style that I can suggest (or some professional hairstylist lingo) that she would understand which would allow me to retain some length, yet still look professional in a conservative, business atmosphere and still managing the flipped ends? What I really want is for all of the hair to fall to near-shoulder length. (I.e.. the lower hairs at the back of my head may be 3", but the top hairs may end up being more than eight inches to reach the same bottom point). Evidently I do not explain it right as I continue to get the "every individual hair is the same length" type cut. Also, besides my old "short" cut, is this the style of longer hair the best with fine hair and could it eventually eliminate the flipped ends?
Helpful tips are welcome as well as any Web photos I could download and print as an example. (Respond on the board or feel free to email me.)
Thanking you in advance!
-Den
BTW-This is the first time in my 40 years that the hair has over the top of my ears. It was through this website and seeing the support given others that I found the "strength" to go for it. Thanks!
Hi Den
This is what I did when my hair was in that stage :
first : NEVER go to a hairdresser if you want to grow your hair !
I only go there every 4 months to trim my sideburns and
neckhair. My hair hasn't been cut now for 18 months!
second: I used gel to make my hair look good. I know it's a nasty thing to do but it does the job.
Good luck in growing your hair out !
Ronny
At the outset,I want to defend the hairdressers (I am one). Please
understand that having a client that wants to communicate is half
of the battle. You won't believe the number of times we're expected
to be mind readers as well - and fellow males, you're often worse
than women on this, as you don't seem to want to learn anything
about how to ask for what you want - as if it's somehow either
(a) beneath you to ask (b) should be intuitively obvious to your
stylist or (c) is somehow "too sissy" to be concerned with
communicating what you want.
Your description on the net (seeing that I can't actually see your
hair) points me at a couple of things. First off, you personally
are better at describing your wants than most - congratulations.
Second, you have to be clear on how much responsibility you're
willing to take in maintaining this. I know it's an awkward
length.
Start by getting a cutting comb - found at many beauty supply stores.
If your ego won't let you go in, get your SO or a friend to get one
for you. What's different about a cutting comb? Most are actually
marked in either inches or centimeters, so we can both agree on the
how much you're willing to have cut. (When I was doing my first
long haired models in school - I brought in a contractor's tape
measure to SHOW the model what 24 inches or 30 inches was relative
to her hair then - pretty much the same technique works in reverse)
OK, now that you can demonstrate (this far and no farther) - we
have to consider a little bit about technique. Contrary to a lot
of sentiment I've heard - I'm not the least bit shy about adding
some layering to a guy's cut - it doesn't have to look like Farrah
Fawcett if you don't want that kind of look. When you get around
your hair length, it sometimes helps things immensely to consider
a "disconnected layer" - that is, cutting the part of the hair below
the occipital region - the wide part of your skull at about the top
of your ear - with some layering to add support and manageability
while leaving the crown in a long single layer over it. This creates
the illusion of a one length cut, but it doesn't have such a blunt
build up of weight in the cut, and is often much more manageable.
At the very least it's a lot neater without sacrificing a lot of
real length. Over time, the layers at the base can be grown out
gradually- and voila - long hair that looks good.
Then, you've got to consider how much responsibility you're willing
to take for your looks. When I was growing my hair out, I was in
school, and believe me, at the equivalent phase in my hair evolution,
EVERYBODY had an opinion on shorter, longer, etc., and what's worse
everybody wanted to "work on it." What I learned was this - if
you really want to get through this phase looking good - you're not
going to be able to do it FAST. Sometimes I hear people who are
growing their hair out hiss at us because we suggest making these
apparent backward steps so that you look good while you pursue length. It's true that if you want to get long hair quickly, let
it go shaggy, and pray that you'll stand the scruffiness of the
look until it's long enough to touch again.
I am not of that school. I confess to being vain enough to have
wanted to look good during the grow out as well as after (it's now
shoulder length - where I'm happy with it - long enough to be fun,
but not so long that I look scraggly - and when I get really long
- doesn't look as good on me - your experience may vary, so
all you other readers, don't jump on me for making a blanket
statement).
What that also means, responsibility wise, is that you're going
to have to consider the use of products and tools during this time
to control your hair to get the look you want (professional, and
good). Your best friends here are some of the newer gels and
pomades that will allow you to tame the edges without losing too
much length.
What I'm about to suggest next will perhaps get a lot
of "boos" and "hisses" but you really have to enlist your stylist
as a partner here, and ask him or her to help educate you on options
and techniques you can live with. If you can't communicate, get
somebody else.
Don't be afraid to work on your hair, it will not
cause your male body parts to wither and drop off - OK? It surprised
even me when during the equivalent phase, I took to hot rollers
to control my "flip" at the ends and ended up with more attention
from the girls in class (if anything) a look that was much more
"long haired, clean and masculine" than if I'd done nothing or
just relied on the cut to carry it off.
I could ramble on, but by now you get the point - it's complicated.
By way of analogy - you wouldn't dream of overhauling the engine
in your car without knowing where the shop manual for it was -
even if you've done it a hundred times - you still want to have it
close for reference and to check that you're doing it right -
because it's a complex process. Getting a good look that lasts
is no less complex, and just because there isn't plug gauge or
a compression test doesn't mean you can disregard the facts and
still come out looking great
Lastly, I do know that there are some invividuals who are genetically
blessed with great hair and who will look good growing it out no
matter what we do or don't do for or (sadly, I will admit, to) them.
There are fewer of them in reality than there are people who think
they are part of that group. Your biggest enemy here is self-
delusion, and your second biggest is not communicating. If you're
willing to communicate and cooperate (working at home where
and how it's appropriate) you will like the results.
Sorry to go on so long.
Bobby
You have the only practical and "real life" advice (IMHO).
Do you have a picture of yourself that you could post? I'd like to get a look at your style.
Thanks again,
Jim
Jim,
Thanks very much for the support. Sometimes while I wrote
it I felt like I was "venting" too much but I think your
looks are important (otherwise I wouldn't be doing this)
and I also feel that if we want positive attention, we have
to do a positive presentation of our assets (including our
long hair)
I have a picture, but no scanner (currently). I will post
at a later time.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Bobby
Bobby,
What is a pomade ?
Can you explain further what to do with rollers ? Wouldn't they
leave the hair in the shape of the roller ?
Could you give me enough information to actually try this ?
Cheers,
Nicholas
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A pomade is a gel used for grooming the hair. It has a more specific
meaning than "gel" for a "gel" is usually meant a water or
alcohol based product, whereas a "pomade" is understood to be
oil or wax based. This gets a little tricky, as miracles of modern
chemistry allow us to create water based waxes, which are also
called pomades. Three I'd recommend: Aveda's Purefume Brilliant
line (comes in humectant - for dry hair) and anti-humectant (for
hair that tends to curl and you want to keep straight.
Sebastian also makes a great product with its Hair Taffy.
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Rollers can be used to achieve more than a tight curl. It's
probably easier to do this with a large barreled curling iron or
a small thermal curling brush than with rollers - but being a
hairdresser does have its advantages. (Smile). OK, you need to
comb your hair before it's completely dry with a wide tooth comb.
The directions I'm going to give assume that you're working with
a curling brush (sometimes called a hot air brush or a hot comb)
or a curling iron. Trying to explain this with rollers is kind of
beyond what I can do without diagrams. The principle is the same,
but the mechanics are more complicated.
Decide on the sections you want to "control" - Divide them off
by parting the hair with the comb, and if necessary, clip the
hair above it out of the way. Now taking that layer of hair
(typically at the perimeter of your cut), divide that layer into
a piece no more that about 3inches wide and half an inch thick -
I prefer working with big sections (which drove several teachers
nuts - but that's another story). Now take a finer comb and comb
through any remaining tangles.
Check for temperature. If you have a thermostat on your brush or
iron,, medium would usually be fine, but remember, folks, that's still hot relative to your skin. Be careful! If it scorches
a piece of paper, it's too damned hot! You can start a fire
even with some blowdryers, take it easy. That's your hair we're
talking about. You probably want to think about misting your hair
with a styling spray or product about now - it actually is better
to do this, as the spray forms a protective coating that helps your
hair withstand the heat, and enhances your ability to style it.
If your hormone levels won't accept that, OK, too, but you'll get
better results if you do it by the book. (Assuming that polished
and groomed is your goal - the "Goth kids" are covered in a
separate lecture.)
Hold the piece you've now separated (technically a subsection) and hold with one hand. Take your iron or brush in the other and working from the root down, run it along the length of the hair. If you're using an iron here, keep the "jaws" open until you come to the end of the hair shaft. Close the "jaws" in such a way that the barrel of the iron or brush is toward your scalp.
Now wind the hair onto the iron or brush, and when you get close
to the scalp, hold it there for 10-20 seconds. (It's longer than
you think). Now the hair is pretty tightly wound arond the
barrel and the shield (the names for the parts of the "jaws") -
If you've done it right, the easiest way to get your hair off
the barrel will be to gently open and close the "jaws" a tiny bit
while pulling the iron horizontally through the center hollow in
that little row of hair. Repeat as necessary.
Now you may think "Horrors!" it's "too curly" - of course it is.
(At least for most people) - what you'll want to do is to take
a brush like a paddle brush or a Denman(tm) - available at most
better barber/beauty supply stores, and gently brush through the
curl to release it. If you don't tug too hard, you'll be left
with smooth hair with a kind of directional bend to it.
If you're trying this with hot air brush, the release is different,
you gently unwind and twist inward just when releasing the end.
(For trivia fans, curling irons were only six days - roller sets
were almost six weeks of practice in school)
Or you could try my personal favourite way: get your girlfriend
or siginificant other to help - you might be surprised at what
happens (and it's usually GREAT!) - Been there, kissed that.
Helped me to get over my ex. that way. (Wicked grin - no offence,
but we're not all a stereotype).
Of course, in my commercial interest, I have to say: "Or see your
stylist" But I'm hoping this primer will help reduce the fear
of the new and make that conversation easier.
Bobby
KMS makes a product called "Paste" I swear by it. It is getting me through the awkward stage. It is closer to pomade than it is to gel, but it is actually different from both. It gives me that "day ot two old hair feel". I don't know about you all, but when I don't wash my hair for a couple days it behaves musch better, I just hate not washing my hair. That is where KMS paste comes in. Okay, commercial over.
kilgore
In what stores have you found that carry KMS "Paste"? Have looked in some of the local department (Wal-mart/KMart) & drug stores, all to no avail. I too find the back of my hair behaves better after a "day or two" of not washing, but not the other areas. Besides, with the heat and humidity lately, I find I occasionally need to wash my hair a minimum of once a day. Have tried Shine "Spray It Straight", which works well, but only for 2-3 hours.
Thanks for the info.
Den
I found it in a hair salon. Call a few places that cut/style/color hair. Ask them if they carry it. I don't think you can find KMS stuff in retail stores, but I'm not sure. Its pretty pricey, around 12 bucks for a 5 or 6 oz tube, but it goes a long way. Good luck!!
kilgore
Bobby,
Thanks for the great advice. You are clearly a great stylist and an asset for your customers!
Re: Took your advice. Thanks!
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Thanks. It makes my day when people have GOOD experiences
with the business. Credit my teachers, not me.
Told you!
From there I took your advice and suggested the "disconnected layer". She stated that was what she was considering but didn't know exactly how to describe it to me. (Go figure!) In fact she liked your wording and description and said that she would use it again in the future. She was really surprised when I told her how and why I had learned this and credited you. Thanks man - but sorry, no royalties!
Well, there is a use for snotty British hair schools after all.
I used to get "gigged" a lot because of my background, but it
turns out that here are some advantages. (chuckling all the way)
I guess all those butchered mannequins were to some use after all.
Best of luck, and don't be afraid to repost. We're not all from the dark side of the scissor blade. Bobby
I need to ask Bobby, I have thick wavy hair and got long hair on my back and I want to grow long to cover my ears. So, I wanna to know when my hair is getting thick and bushy. The only problem is looking for somebody who would do a good cut and know how to deal with the long hair and not too sloppy job sometime I get worry, and I don't know what the word to explained so I show my hair what I want to be and write down on the paper {I'm deaf} so when the person trying to tell me I wasn't too sure to answer that like she asking me if I want the layers that I do not know what it is, so this time I'm gonna have a trim and show them what I want to let my hair to grow on my top and the side to cover my ears for {hiding my hearing aids.)
I want to ask you how often do I shampoo and condtioner? I usual do that everyday isn't that not good or is it ok?
I need to ask Bobby, I have thick wavy hair and got long hair on my back and I want to grow long to cover my ears. So, I wanna to know when my hair is getting thick and bushy. The only problem is looking for somebody who would do a good cut and know how to deal with the long hair and not too sloppy job sometime I get worry, and I don't know what the word to explained so I show my hair what I want to be and write down on the paper {I'm deaf} so when the person trying to tell me I wasn't too sure to answer that like she asking me if I want the layers that I do not know what it is, so this time I'm gonna have a trim and show them what I want to let my hair to grow on my top and the side to cover my ears for {hiding my hearing aids.)
I want to ask you how often do I shampoo and condtioner? I usual do that everyday isn't that not good or is it ok?
Please feel free to e-mail me and I appreciate it a lot.
Thanks
Hippie.
Hey Den,
i must agree with ronny suy. I think you just need to live with it until it gets to your desired length. put lots of gel in it to get by these important times (i.e. wedding etc.) while cutting it will neaten things up a bit, it will take three or four times as long to get it to your desired length. if time is no big factor with you, then trim away. if there will be pressures from work, then trim it. if not, then LEAVE IT ALONE.
later!
Dare I suggest a wig?
Be aware, of course, that longer hair is a living, moving thing, not something glued to your head like it was made of plastic. This is one of the joys of having long hair - seeing it a little different every time you look at it. Sometimes it will fall in front of your shoulders, sometimes behind, and sometimes it will split as it falls across them. It will blow in the wind. Some days it will be curlier, and some days straighter.
If you've had short hair, you've gotten used to your hair looking exactly the same all the time. Long hair is not like that, and at first you may feel driven to force it to meet your olden days urge for constancy. Look around yourself at other longhairs' hair, though, and notice its variety at different times. This will help you to accept that it is okay to relax your old standard a little, and let your long hair be more free, as long hair is!
First of all - even though you probably don't want to hear this -
IMO the type of hair that you have just described is one of the
very few types of hair that actually look good during the "bad
hair phase" as well. I know a lot of people with very straight
and very fine hair who are in the "bad hair phase", and none of them
really look bad.
You are not required to get a trim. If you feel really uncomfortable
about your hair being layered and shaggy, you can use a lot of
gel.
Have you tried to explain to her that the idea is to have all your
hair reach your shoulders? If not, tell it to her and ask her
what is she gonna do about that. If she tries very hard to talk
you out of that, or says something along the lines of "but you need
to trim it all every 6 weeks anyway", don't use her services. If
she understands that as "take a 3/8 - 1/2" off at the bottom and
leave the top hairs longer", you are lucky.
Having had the style myself for about 3 years, I can say that it
was the best for my flipped ends, but unfortunately I have a different
hair type. I think that this style looks very neat on straight hair
too. If you need to look "businesslike" it is probably the best.
Good luck!
Grrr