new thread
I've decided to post here looking for some independent advice especially from a male perspective. Sorry if I ramble a bit but I feel like I need to unload a little and also put this in context.
Both my fiance and my sister's fiance have long hair. My boyfriends hair is around shoulder blade length - I guess what I would call bra strap length. My sister's boyfriends hair is even longer. My sister is a hair stylist.
About three months ago now, it was in January, we were all spending a night together at my sisters apartment. During the evening we had some drinks and got silly and my sister had the idea of dressing up both our mens hair. Neither were keen at first but my sister used her charm on her boyfriend and then he talked my boyfriend into it saying he didn't want to be the only one. So she played around with some up-do's and braids. Got me involved and so on. It became quite a long event playing with lots of styles and accessories. Both guys got into it more as the evening went on.
After this one night, my boyfriend asked me a couple of times to fix his hair into a French braid - he'd never asked this before. He just tied it into a low ponytail sometimes.
About a month after this one evening, my boyfriend and I went back to my sisters again for another dinner night. When we arrived, we found she had fixed her boyfriends her into a classic upsweep. He seemed a little nervous at first but got relaxed again as the evening went on. During the evening I had to run to the store to get something. When I got back I found my sister had fixed my boyfriends hair into a braided up-do. I wasn't very pleased with this, but he was happy and insisted on keeping it up for the rest of the evening. Even when we got in the car to drive home, I asked him to take it out and he argued me saying he liked it and couldn't understand why it bothered me.
We didn't discuss this again for maybe a couple of weeks and he didn't ask me to do any more braids. But I came home one evening and found him wearing one of my large hair claws. I asked him to take it off and told him that it bothered me that he was appearing to be wearing his hair in more feminine ways. He told me to chill out and that he was just enjoying having it off his neck for a change. He said I was over-reacting.
Two things that have happened very recently have prompted me to write here.
First, both my sister and I are due to be wed this year. My sister in May and my wedding is in July. About a week and a half ago my sister told me that she wants both her boyfriend and mine to attend the wedding with 'elegant' hair styles befitting the romance of the occassion. I asked her what she meant and she said maybe some sort of elegant braid or even an up-do. I explained to her that this bothered me re: my boyfriend and suggested he was enjoying it too much. We basically got into a big fight, with her insisting that I was again over-reacting, that the guys should be allowed to enjoy their hair, that she likes them wearing their hair like that. And in the end that it was her wedding and I should go along with what she wished. After talking it over with my mom, I decided to back down just to keep the peace. But I am scared that its changing the way I feel about my boyfriend.
Just this last weekend, my sister insisted on playing with the guys hair for some ideas. Basically the styles became more and more feminine looking. She is even moving into rolling their hair now. She seems to be getting a kick out of this, and so do the guys. But its turning me off. She's insisting that the guys need to wear their hair up for entire days at the weekend so she can see how the styles will hold. She keeps wanting to try different styles too saying she hasn't made up her mind yet.
Now my boyfriend is suggesting that he might want to wear his hair more elegantly for our wedding too. I told him no way. I love his long hair, but I'd sooner see him cut it than wear it femininely. We got into a big argument and he said I am being selfish and that it's his day as much as mine. I was left shaking and felt really sick.
Now today a co-worker has told me that she's seen my boyfriend in my sisters salon getting his hair set. She commented on how cute he looked. I went into the restroom and cried. I feel like I am losing all respect for my boyfriend and falling out with my sister too. He'd never mentioned going to her today and she never mentioned it either. So it's like they are going behind my back. I was thinking of calling her or going to the salon, but it's not easy to leave my desk. So I am trying to calm down before seeing him tonight and maybe having to deal with her too.
So - I am asking. Am I over-reacting. If so, how can I change the way I feel. Or am I right to be concerned. I have asked some others who I trust for input, but they are all women. So I'd like some guy input here as well. Although I am happy for any other women to comment too.
Thanks
Stacy
To each his own I guess. In the last two years my hair has gotten substancially long and several of my female friends enjoy playing with it or brushing it or whatever and thats fine with me. Sometimes they even tie it back into a tail for me and stuff but as soon as they talk about any type of feminine hair style or anything like that I just put the foot down and say definetly no. I myself would never consider wearing my hair in any of the styles that your Bf seems to enjoy. But it is his hair although I could see why you wouldnt want him wearing it like that at the wedding. Maby bring up the fact that to you he seems to be making the wedding into a joke by wearing his hair in a girlish way?
That's it in part Nige - I mean about turning the wedding into a joke. Thank you for your comments. But the way I am starting to feel is that this isn't the right man for me. It's getting that serious and I don't know what to do. I mean I feel sick just thinking about it. He's a wonderful guy. I love him to bits. We have been dating for around 14 months in total. But these last few months just seem to have been a change. And I am not sure I truly love a guy that seems to enjoy wearing his hair in obviously feminine styles. Meanwhile my sister also has changed and seems to be getting a real kick out of this too. And yet everyone is making me out to be the one who is in the wrong. But where's this going to stop? Is he going to be wearing a white dress too? I half wonder! It makes me bawl just thinking about this. How could something just so silly turn into this. So on the one hand I am questioning whether I am over reacting or not. On the other hand I don't know where this is going to end up. And its a risk carrying on with the wedding if that's the case. I don't really want to go home tonight. I feel so alone right now.
Stacy
Best way I can say to look at it is that its just a faze he is going through. But I really cant give advice outside of the hair thing unless you want relationship advice from an 18 year old heh. Hopefully you can work it out and I hope to hear good news from you.
To be honest, I would recommend calling off the wedding if you are having serious doubts about whether he is the right man for you. These changes may be part of his personality that will evolve even more, an evolution that you aren't completely comfortable with.
I have just read your post, I thought I must say that just because your b/f is wearing his hair in a feminine way doesn't mean he's becoming a girl! It sounds very unlikely that he will turn gay or girlie, he's just probably enjoying his hair while he's got it. I agree that it must make you very uncomfortable to see your b/f like this, but he'll probably just get bored in a couple of weeks, the novelty will eventually wear off. There is very little hairstyles a man with long hair can do with the aim of getting the hair off the back of ones neck or back, and he's just trying anything out. If you really feel strongly after this, and this hasn't changed your views, you must tell him that unless he stops this behaviour, you will call the wedding off. Have you done this already? This is my opinion only, so you may not want to trust a 17 year old on this delicate matter.
Best wishes
Perhaps ask him how he would feel if you decided one day that a crew cut would look becoming on you. Perhaps even call his bluff and say you've decided to just go for it...and see how he reacts. Alternatively you cud just be honest an tell him that you dont like the way he's been behaving lately and it has given you doubts as to how well you thought you know him?...Or just say you've always dreamt of the perfect wedding day and that just doesnt fit your idea of perfect. Most likely it is a phase he's going through, tho if you catch him rummaging in your makeup bag id start to worry :)
First, your situation may or may NOT apply to the following:
I saw a segment on NBC's Dateline show several weeks ago about a guy who, in spite of being very straight (sexually) and very happy with his wife, had such a strong attraction to a feminine way of dressing and thinking, that he eventually decided to go through the surgical procedure of becoming a female. I'd never have guessed in a million years he'd be someone like that----he looked and sounded thoroughly masculine. Such a decision caused, obviously, lots of heartache and inner despair for his wife, and the program noted most women who've gone through similar circumstances end up divorcing their husbands.
Your boyfriend may be so far away from having comparable transsexual emotions that your raised eyebrow about his hairstyle may be ridiculous. But if you've seen vague hints on other occasions, over other matters, that suggest somewhat bi-gender behavior in general, I'd recommend you try to clarify things with him.
It was interesting reading your post. Thanks for sharing your concerns. It seems that this is mostly to do with your boyfriend crossing over normally accepted gender norms - although these change with time and place. My mid-back length hair would have got me (at the very least) some very strange looks only 40 years ago but now most people don't even notice. Back in the 1700's a long wig of white curls was normal for men - so there are no absolutes ! Seeing your fiance with with what are usually female styles is maybe blurring the female -> male attraction you feel for him. Maybe you are subconsciously doubting his sexuality in some way too.
My wife dislikes me having my hair in a plait (braid) and so does my daughter (she's 8). They can't really put into words why they don't like it - they say it just feels odd seeing me with my hair like that. BTW neither of them are getting angry or telling me what to do - they're just telling me how they feel. It sounds like that's all you are doing to.
I'm not a relationship counsellor but it's clear that you both need to air your feelings on this topic. If you can't reach a happy compromise on this then maybe questions over babies, careers, money and in-laws may get tricky as well.
Good luck !
They used to pile up their hair (usually not their own) in gargantuan fancy updos called macaroni. This is where the Yankee Doodle song comes from, by the way. It's the American's making fun for the British. They yankee sticks a feather in his hat and calls it macaroni, in jest.
Yankee Doodle hmm hmm hmmmm....sticks a feather in his hat, and calls it macaroni.. Dang it!! How does this go? I forgot the words and now I have that stupid song in my head (hummed of course).
Yankee Doodle went to town riding on a pony stuck a feather in his hat, and called it macaroni.. Dang it!! How does this go? I forgot the words and now I have that stupid song in my head (hummed of course).
named after the fashion of sticking feathers in hats.
OMG! That's one of the things I miss the most...playing with my hubby's hair and braiding it on a leisurely night. I would put it into semi-cornrows, he'd leave it in for days.
His hair never took the curl it should have gotten from that though...
I used butterfly clips, and did it any way I wanted. I loved playing with his hair, just to practice for my own and see how different things looked. *sigh*
He'd just sit there and watch the movies, and let me do anything I wanted...
First, how long have you guys been intimately involved/dating? This question goes much deeper, I think, then simply about hair.
Personally, as a married man, if there is one thing I learned, marriage is an INTERdependent relationship, i.e. although there is dependence, there is also INDependence. Whether married or not, people change, and they should. That is how we grow as human beings. Marriage is letting the other person, within reasonable limits, of course, be their own person. The question is whether this new manner of your fiance is "reasonable" in your eyes.
On this board, we are all (long haired men) in the minority, fighting against societal norms. Long hair was considered feminine, and still is by many. As a long haired male and law student, I feel very strong about mens' rights to have long hair and to be treated equally as women in society, both in and out of the workplace. Change doesn't occur easy in society. It takes a few to be strong and go against conformity. Here, I commend your fiance for this.
For example, I'm 31. When I first got my ear pierced at 16, I was one of only a handful of guys in my highschool to do that. In the 80's, earrings on men were considered feminine. After earrings on men became much more widespread, earrings on men were not considered so feminine. The same would be true for long hair on a man, but I don't foresee a widespread rave of men getting long hair, and it's even less likely that the few men that have long hair would publicly wear feminine hair styles.
I actually wear "feminine" hair styles at home sometimes to keep my hair out of my face: i.e. those headband elastics & butterfly clips. When I'm in public, I wear the 'masculine' hair accessories like dark colored hair elastics. My wife and daughter accept this of me, and I like having my daughter play with my hair, as well as my wife. Marriage is partially about acceptance of the other, despite nonagreement or a difference of opionion.
The reason I asked how long you've dated, or even known, your fiance, is that if something like this goes against your beliefs so strongly that you don't think you could deal with it, then perhaps you don't know your fiance as well as you should to get married & should maybe postpone the marriage.
I can see both sides here: both your concern in your fiance's noncormity and also your fiances freedom of individuality. I'm fairly liberal in individuality, so I feel that your fiance should be able to wear his hair the way he wants without fear of condemnation by those who love him. If you don't think you can overcome his new hair desires, it wouldn't be fair to him to continue your relationship. Just my 2 cents.
Good luck, Stacy.
First of all, I'm really sorry you are feeling bad. It totally sucks to think you know someone and then realize maybe you don't. BUT....Based on what you've said, I have to more or less agree with the whole idea he is going through a phase.
Think of it this way... when high school kids first gets to college, many of them are experiencing freedom for the first time. So it is really common for them to go out and binge drink and party and put themselves in a really bad way. Shit, even I did that and my parents were totally chill when I lived with them. But do I still pass out naked in other people's bathrooms? Not very often. Does every kid become a boozer? Not at all, and in the same regard I think your boyfriend will do his thing, have his fun, and then come back down to earth. The reason why he is resisting you right now is because you are playing the parent figure. Don't take this the wrong way, but it might be that right now you are mom calling on the phone trying to make sure her son is studying reallly hard and being a straight shooter.
It sounds, to me, like your boyfriend feels like he has suddenly been 'allowed' to play with his hair and wear it in ways that he thought were taboo. Don't bail out on him. Even in the worst case scenario, if you stick with him you'll be closer to knowing who he really is. If you love him, that is something you want, right? If his troublesome ways continue on too close to the wedding, then delay it. Tell him he can keep doing his hair thing and you love him and will let him do what he wants, but until he realizes marriage is a joint venture then it can wait. At the very least, this will allow you more time to think about it and figure out where you really stand. Ask yourself, why DOES it bug you so much?
Good answer, pale hunter!
I agree that the issue lies more in defining the problem than seeking some kind of answer.
From a really simple point of view, he's just playing with his hair. Nothing more, nothing less.
I would also agree with your fiance in that it is going to be his day too! My wedding day will be very important to me as well as to my fiance, and I'm sure hairstyles will be discussed. However, I would never presume to dictate what hairstyle my fiance should wear - I might say what i prefer, but I'll not be upset if she wears it another way.
I would expect to be treated no differently - You are 2 people with 2 opinions and not everything will be the way YOU want it.
I wish you both all the best, and do let us know how things work out. Just remember that your finace is trying something new, and while you can give your opinion, you must support him until he is through experimenting - read MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS to understand better what goes on in his head - it helped me understand more about myself and how I work!
Good luck!
wolfeyes.
stacy,
hmmm, interesting scenario...personally, i have no real issues with french braids in and of themselves...i've seen MANY bikers wear it and it seems fine. i am not a fan of guys wearing their hair in more feminine fashions though (the up-dos, etc.) but that is just my opinion...it DOES strike me as odd that your sister would be adamant about SOMEONE ELSE'S hair...if she wants a more fomalized look for herself, then fine...but to insist that others, specificaly other MEN have that, in my opinion, is a bit much.
as far as why your man is so fond of it? i can't say. i could speculate very easily, but that would do you no good.
better to ask him why, see if there is some deeper reason why, and go from there.
good luck,
mjtoo
Your fiance needs a reality check about the wedding. After all, you're not asking hime to *cut* his hair. Your just asking him to style it a certain way. For one day. Your wedding day. A day that is traditionally much more important to the bride than the groom.
As for all the other times, you have to ask yourself if you want to marry the guy, assuming that he keeps acting femme. If the answer is "no", then tell him that you are postponing the wedding, and tell him why. It doesn't sound like you want an "alternative wedding" to a guy with an "alternative lifestyle".
I think most people on this board can appreciate the distinction between just having long hair, and acting femme. Evidently the long hair was something you bargained for, but the femme stuff wasn't.
If it's just an innocent "phase" like some people think, then waiting won't hurt. If he is really confused about his sexual identity, the waiting will probably stretch out until you both find somebody else.
The dynamic with your sister is interesting too.
Of course, IANAPsychologist... but then neither was Ann Landers, and that's what this sounds like... an Ann Landers column.
Hey, at least you found out about this problem *before* the wedding.
OK, I realize I have nothing to tell you in such big decisions as marriage,
I just would like you to consider some things...
what is actually the problem, with his hairstyles and his hairstyle at the wedding?
you worry that other people will think he's a rebel, or something other "bad", and not like him?
you want to be the beautiful one?
you don't want him to like beeing beautiful?
you don't want his hair to take the attention from the wedding?
and like already said, you feel like your wedding would be like a joke?
and so on... and I'm not saying anything above is true of course.
perhaps if you find out what is the problem, you can solve it, or perhaps see that it's actually not a problem...
(has happened some times in history :-))
and worrying about what others think might be overrated, unless they got a point,
or will stone him to death or something.
If you think it's a huge deal how people wear their hair, then you're not overreacting.
but I think it's not a big deal how people wear their hair.
if he likes to have his hair like that, then its him, and I can see why he would possibly like
to look like himself on the wedding.
(and if you let him be himself he doesn't have to do it without telling you, of course.)
but just the fact that he likes to have cool hair now can mean anything or nothing.
other than he likes to have cool hair.
he's still him inside, right?
or has he really changed inside, to something so inhuman that you don't love it?
maybe he's just not as uptight as many other guys... (actually, I think that quite a lot of men,
would they have long hair and a willing stylist, would enjoy testing different long hair hairdos,
in absolute secret! but not many would dare or want to meet their friends like that, breaking the
norm and probably getting attention at the same time... and of course not relying their personality
on their hard surface.)
hair is just hair after all, so why don't play with it, I think...
and yes, it can feel quite good to wear the hair in other ways than free sometimes,
I've worn my hair many ways just because it's practical or feels good for the moment...
when he now might feel a bit more free to wear new hairdos, because the world didn't collapse
when you and your sister tried it on him, of course he might like to choose another hairdo more often.
and very many long hair hairdos are seen as feminine in todays society,
even some practical ones!
and I like to get my hair braided, especially by someone I like, it's love.
peace love and understanding :-)
oops, some answers flooded in while I wrote, haven't read them...
This sounds like a real problem for you. My wife would not have accepted anything like this either at our wedding. (I had very short hair for our wedding).
Maybe a compromise would help? Other styles might be more acceptable, such as a low bun. There are many men in Hawaii that wear buns (big, masculine men). Also, recently in Victoria, New Zealand...male police officers were given the right to have long hair, but it has to be kept in a bun while on duty.
Let him do a compromise hairstyle for the sister's wedding. But for your wedding, both of you should be trying to make each other happy and be as attractive as you can for your bride/groom.
My hair is almost waistlength. I'd like to have someone like your sister try out various styles on mine just for fun, but I would not wear it out of the house like that.
Good luck...
"Also, recently in Victoria, New Zealand...male police officers were given the right to have long hair, but it has to be kept in a bun while on duty."
Male police officers are allowed to keep it long here in the U.S. as well while on duty. My dad said he's seen 2 so far, and i've seen one. And i also seen a black cop with chin length dreads while on duty in my dad's police magazine, no joke...i think that's awesome. They were all of the NYC police dept. It's great to see that police depts. are changing. The two officers my dad said he seen both had about mid back length hair. The one i seen, i couldn't really tell, cause he had it up in a bun.
I suspect the post is a troll (in general, people don't change -- it happens, but for it to happen to three people simultaneously? I just find the story unbelieavable). But in case it's not, here is my advice.
Better that this is happening before you get married than afterwards. But don't try to change him, and don't think you can change him after you get married. This is a big mistake women tend to make. If you marry the guy, it means you accept him the way he is, which is why I say it's good this is happening now.
The other thing is that you should trust your gut instincts. They usually are right.
Notice that I didn't mention anything at all about your overreacting. I consider it irrelevant. Whether you are or not, you will still have to put up with yourself and this man.
If it were me, I'd watch to see what happens. It could just be a bunch of fun and he'll get tired of it soon.
I could not have responded any better than this.
I suspect a troll too...
But hey if its true - Hair is Hair - in the past Men have worn very elaborate hairdos just look at the Wigs they used to wear years ago.
I'd only start to worry if your Fiance starts wearing your clothes - but even then I wouldn't be too worried. Most TV's are straight, which means he won't have lost interest in you.
I don't know. This is really a judgement call.
Are you really offended by his hair "up-do's" or are you offended by the time he is spending, behind your back, with your sister?
I'm a very jealous person, and I'd be more pissed about my sister brushing HER fingers through MY man's hair than of him wearing his hair in a certain way.
Perhaps you should experiment with his hair yourself. Maybe that is what he's trying for...your acceptance of his hair. YOU touching, caressing, and tending to it.
It is a very personal thing, touching and playing with someones hair. Quite sensual, too!
I did demand of my husband that his hair be down at our wedding.
He did this for me, but not much else. He didn't even wash it. I saw him during the ceremony, not before or very much after. He was setting up the "beer tent," making sure the beer was there, and got completely sh*!faced afterward.
I saw him after everyone was gone. Right before he passed out. What a great wedding. LOL
Also consider that it is perfectly normal to get "cold feet"
before a wedding. My wife and I both went through this phase.
I would find a third party -- someone who is neither a friend
or relative of either one of you -- and air some of these
issues. Family or marriage therapists would be ideal. They are
trained to listen and to help you understand each other's feelings.
You don't need to be married or even have a "problem" to benefit
from their help. Might be the best-spent money for the entire
wedding.
Stacy,
Your message about your fiance and your feelings is quite interesting.
I am male and wear my hair long. I enjoy wearing many of the hair styles you described. I am able to relate to much of what you have stated.
It is lovely that your fiance is developing the joy of pretty hair dos. I find it inspiring for others who want to have roller sets done in salons. Let him enjoy wearing feminine hair dos if he desires. On his behalf I would ask that you encourage him and compliment him.
I especially like the idea of your fiance wearing a variety of updos.
Try to relax and enjoy.
Shelby
