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I'm an American that is afraid to be drafted in this unjust war/
Not let me clarify I'm no coward and would not hestitate to fight for my country if it was being invaded.
But I don't want to lose my hair and I feel this war was unjustified and to partipate in murder for me would be morally rephensible. Is there any countries that still accept conscientous objectors from the U.S. with decent standards of living?
I'll I can say is I don't think it will happen, to unpopular, but if it does it will be bush after he gets reelected if he does.
I will turn 26 in december, and from what I know I no longer have to worry about it, but If I did I wouldn't go I'd fight and scream and get the media involved all the way. I have no intentions of cutting my hair for that either, but lets not worry about something that hasn't happened yet.
Cool, my sister is 26 this December too you know! Funny world:)
What day? my b-day is 12-22-78, what is hers?
Hers is 12-29-78, a week later.
I know a guy on the West Coast who's moving to Canada in a few weeks. 3 of his friends will be following suit, soon afterward.
How would an American be eligible to move to Canada if they have no intentions of canadian Citizenship. I don't want to fight in Canada's army either.
I dunno, but I seriously doubt Canada will ever get involved in this war. Their government is as opposed to the war as other countries are, like France and Germany.
I know my opinion is allready clear and has not been asked I just wanted to state about this anti-war Germany thing. I feel since WWII Germany has chickened out. In all of Germany's history Germany has been a fighter. But seeing Germany stay out of a justifiably good war is just not right.
I ask that you please give us some reasons why you think the war in Iraq is justified - so we know where you're coming from on this. Also - you might be surprised if you talked to someone about this who has just gotten back from active duty in Iraq. ;)
Like I said in another post in this thread the Iraqi war is over. It's done and finished with. The war going on right now is The War Against Terrorism. Iraq...that's clean up now. But the War Against Terrorism? How can one disagree with so good a goal? A world free of terrorism.
Because fighting a war on terrorism is fighting a war on a idea.
Terrorism has been with the world for several millenuiums and there will be terrorists several centuries into the future. The thing is we were not justified in invading Iraq, so that makes anything done there by America wrong.
How about cleaning one mess up at a time.
Also forcing soldiers to fight a conventional war on terrorist is very bad. You cannot fight a conventional war against terrorists you have to be as unconventional as they are to win. Besides the only thing the US and UK governements are succeeding in doing is drawing new recruits to the terrorist cause when before the Iraq War they had little reason to fight against America.
If this War is so Justified why is it most of the people around the world and even in the UK and USA are against it? Even most countries governments will not get involved in the Iraq war.
If we wanted to take this a step further...I have a friend who is an American who grew up in Germany. His family moved to the United States last year and he went to my school and graduated with me this year. First thing he's doing after the summer is moving back to Germany. Now...funny...why would an American *with a father working for the government* want to move to another country so fast after being here only one year?? Is this really the all-mighty land of the totally free? Kinda makes you wonder...
In fact public opinion in America was in favour of attacking Iraq, but there is no other country where this was the case. Every single one of America's allies joined in depite the opposition of their own population, even the UK.
I am beginning to see why he wants to reenact WW2 as a German, and it's not a pretty sight.
No, you are not begining to see why I want to re-enact WWII as a German and it is a pretty sight in a way which is why I want to do German. You see, with Civil War I am required by historical accuracy to be dirty, grimy, smelly, I can't have a tent, I can't have a great coat in the winter, in the summer I must wear wool coats and pants and hats, the shoes hurt alot and the way the leather is the shoes freeze right up, it's not worth all that for twenty minutes of running in that hot wool and shooting off my Enfield. But for World War Two German I am required by historical accuracy to portray myself as clean and soldierly, something I desire (this being the "pretty sight"), I must have a tent, I must wear jackboots that are very comfortable, in the winter I can have a scarf, gloves, greatcoat, sweatshirt, everything I could want to be warm, in the summer I can wear a white denim suit for drill and lightweight uniform for fighting, I can have good food, good clothes, everything imagineable and I am still authentic. And just for your information I am going to be portraying a DRAFTED German soldier. German WWII means good gear, lots of everything, I get to look clean and like a real soldier, be authentic still and then have fights where you run from place to place, snipe, stand in the open firing, do whatever and it looks like alot of fun. But I am afeared you think I am a Nazi just because I am pro war. Well you be afeared that I think you're a flower-power-peace-loving-hippy just because you're anti war. I didn't resort to name calling first, YOU DID.
Do me a favor, will ya, Marc? The next time you're re-enacting any kind of war, pretend the guns you're using are firing real bullets. Also, see if you can get your buddies to expand your play time to from a pissy 20 minutes to.... oh, say... 4 years... and then tell me how much fun you have.
People who think war is fun frighten me... they really, seriously do...
But I AM a flower-power-peace-loving-hippy, ROTFLMAO!!!
From my perspective you just complimented me.
You really do seem to be trying to antagonize me and I don't appreciate it.
Our political opinions are poles apart. You just used what you seemed to think was some kind of epithet, and no doubt from a Republican POV it might be, and yet I agreed with you that I am that kind of person, and proud of it. How is that antagonistic?
You have said many things that are antagonistic to liberals, and yet you seem vaguely surprised at the response.
Chrieten made the correct decision on staying out. We don't have the military or equipment to support warfare. As well, everyone knew that Bush didn't have any evidence to back up his bluff of "weapons of mass destruction." His famous quote. It's even in a short form to, WMD? lol.
Canada is more involved in peacekeeping missions. There are still soldiers helping in Afganstian.
There's no draft in Canada.
I dont really pay much attention to the news, but when did this come about??... and to sound even more clueless what war are you even talking about?! - terrorism? Please explain, I cant see anything on google news about drafting people into the army. Incidentaly I did find this interesting - leopards from a national park on the edge of Bombay, India's largest city, have killed 10 people this month — prompting forest officials to let loose pigs and rabbits to feed the big cats.
its only ex army people. Not that it would affect me being British anyway, I just thought it sounded so odd for them to be calling up regular people!
Well, the easiest way out is to pretend to be gay. Since the Army is officially 'Don't ask, Don't tell', but is against having openly gay members, it would be an easy ticket back home.
If that couldn't work, then I would definately leave the country. I'd probably go to a nation in Europe that hasn't proven to be that supportive of America's current military tactics (Belgium, Sweeden, Netherlands, France, etc.)
Yeah, that works pretty well.
I will never forget the very last call I ever received from a recruiting officer trying to get me interested in enlisting. It was shortly after graduating High School, and I'd received half a dozen other calls within a month's time. I still remember what I told the guy, after he finished his propoganda speech:
"Look, thanks for the interest, but I'm a homicidal maniac on medication, and I'm gay. You still want me?"
He promptly thanked me for my time, and then hung up.
Thankfully, I would never have passed any kind of physical, anyway. I have monocular vision.
HAHAHA, now thats the line i SHOULD have used
...The UK, at least we think we are non supportive! Except for our retard of the year prime minister! (I think you can tell I'm against the war)
That was funny. He and Bush were the only ones. And then Parliament told him to shut up! lol
I went with a friend of mine once to visit a family he knew who were very wealthy. They lived part of the time in England, and partly in France (they were English). The draft was abolished in England in the '60s.
Anyway, one of their sons was drafted by the French authorities. He pretended to be gay, as well as pretending to be suffering from depression. Why that particular combination I don't know. Just hedging his bets, I suppose.
He put on an act where he kept his head down and spoke very slowly in a monotone, so as to feign depression. He succeeded. He didn't have to join the French army.
I am afraid that with the general concensious of the board I find myself at the other end of the shore, of this mighty river. I feel that if one is drafted it is his/her American duty as a citizen of this great country to beat the alarm and sound the bugles and lift up the rifle and fight for the land of the free. And, I must add, if necesary one must die for the country. But mind you that there is nothing as honorable and, dare I say, desireable, to die for one's country valiently. Anywho, back to the draft, when you are a citizen of America it must be known that when you turn 18 you are going to sign up for the draft and thus it is a known risk for living in this great land of ours. My view is I hope the draft doesn't happen but if it does I shall don the uniform of a soldier and I will fight like a man. That's the last point in my soapbox speech. When a person evades the draft by running to Cannuckville or fights it biting and screaming, &c. I find it to be cowardism, yellow belliedness, the practicioners of such actions are nothing but white livered, Communist, weakling, people who can not be called a man in all good conscience.
A coward? How is not choosing to fight in an unjust war cowardice? Why just grab a gun, yell 'hurrah!' and charge into death's arms? THAT'S stupid. Why fight in ANY war? War evolves from mankind's inherent flaws and primitive urges. Eventually, we as a race, will evolve beyond that. Some of us already have. War solves nothing, it's stupid and pointless and tragic. If instead of spending billions on weapons we spent the money on helping out our fellow man we wouldn't have so many wars. Damn, I sound like such a hippie lol I'm sorry, but I think war in general is just plain dumb and primitive. I'm not a coward or 'yellow-bellied', I just see things in from a different perspective. By no means am I afraid to die. But dying in a war? I'd feel ashamed I took part and regret I put myself in such an incomprehensible situation. If you need to kill people and die at the hands of another to give your life meaning, you're not truly living.
Thumbs up! Nicely said. The only way I'd die for my country is if the place I live was attacked and I was doing some sort of good for everyone. I'm not about to go marching into Iraq to die for Bush's pocket.
Bush is just a puppet. You would be dying for the goverment's wallet. They take everyone's money anyway, Bastards lol
Look Most people looking into avoiding military service are not cowards, in fact I almost joined the marines after 9/11, after I went to jail I began to see how corrupt the American system was, after the government invaded Iraq I did not want to fight the enemy no more. they just do not want to die for the cause of supporting the oil money and power machine.
There is a minority of people who dodge the draft because they are afraid to die, but for most soldiers to die for something meaningless is pointless. If I died as a combatant in the Iraq War, and if there was a afterlife, I would feel so shamed I contradicted my own morals. History has not been kind to leaders that invade countries and America will not be an exception. In time this war will be considered as unjustified, as the Invasion of Poland by Hitler. Remember Hitler called the Polish Resistance and French Resistance terrorists too.
I'm part German and I even speak a little and I lived there for 4 years. The reason Germans do not want to fight in Iraq because George Bush II reminds the Germans of Hitler. Bush has been following the Demogauge routine as of late, using wars to draw away attention from his domestic policies.
That's right. It's exactly what he is doing.
The only difference to prevent a second Hitler is the media. It's very hard to censor all media. We can see the whole picture. I do find that the American stations like NBC is completely different from CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp.). The American stations pick and chose which facts they want to release.
That's right. It's exactly what he is doing.
The only difference to prevent a second Hitler is the media. It's very hard to censor all media. We can see the whole picture. I do find that the American stations like NBC is completely different from CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp.). The American stations pick and chose which facts they want to release.
That is why I use the Internet a lot more to get information. I stopped watching network news programs about 15 years ago and stopped watching just about all commercial tv about 8 years ago. I'm surprised that MOST people still watch tv and let it influence their voting behavior.
Again, I disagree. Dying in a war is nothing to be ashamed of. It's something to be proud of. To be willing to put your life on the line for something means that you were one of the greats. Running from a draft because you don't agree with the war is cowardism. Your country is asking you to do something for it and by God that means you do it. Redleader, I mean once a person is old enough or something then just go to Canada and live like a Liberal coward. Or go to Mexico, just don't drink the water. Anywho, bottom line, if there is a war, fight or not, your choice. If there is a draft and you are drafted by God you fight and do your duty. The sublimest of all things in life given to us by God is duty. As for this war, you must all remember now that the Iraqi War is done. What's going on in Iraq right now is clean up. The War on Terrorism in Afghanistan...how can you not agree with that? This is a war to hunt down these terrorists who behead people like it's taking the shell off of a peanut. A war to bring peace, and yes that may be an oxymoron but damnit, man is wont to war, there's no way to avoid it. There is always a war going on somewhere and that's how it's always been. But nonetheless, the war to end terrorism, how is that disagreeable?! That's like saying, "Don't kill the terrorists who behead people, they have rights," blahdy blahdy blah. Damnit, war is necesary. I know it's terrible, I know it's a scurge but: "I love it...So help me God I do love it." ~General George S. Patton Jr.
No. Acting civilized, mature, and respectful is something to be proud of. I'm not saying that terrorists who kill people aren't at fault (that's a whole different debate). But as long as we're going to be a world of people propelled forward by the capitalism that agriculture has prompted, where there will always be uneven distributions of food, land, etc., and there will always be religions to keep the opressed strong, there will also be war. What is silenced today is reborn tomorrow.
And how then is American democracy different from German fascism? How are we free?
Again, it's sad that you are so judgemental and prone to poking fun at people and nations that differ from your own (which you did not choose to be born into).
Can you argue your point in a secular fashion? We don't all worship this nefarious, hegemonic, and Americanized god that you do.
No, it's not. 50+ American soldiers lost ther lives in Iraq this month. Bombs against our troops go off daily.
"The death of one is a tradgedy. The death of millions is a statistic." ~Joseph Stalin. I use this quote often even though I despise Stalin, the Commie scum.
Whatever dude, but let's drop all the political debate and talk about nice things like long hair. Something we all share a common opinion about!
Marc, no one's arguing that terrorism is a bad thing. However, one of Bush's biggest mistakes - and he's made many, many of them - is that he waged war on a type of crime. Unfortunately, terrorism will always exist, so long as there are people to take up a cause. Because of this, he's put America in a fight that will very likely last several more decades.
To further illustrate my point, I'll name four things:
* Developing WMD
* Inflamatory rhettoric against the US
* Supporting and harboring terrorism
* Oppression of their own people
Now, here's the problem with your idealogy:
You can't tell me what country I just named.
That's a problem when you're talking about war. You don't know if I'm talking about Iraq, Iran, North Korea, or Sudan. The question that people have finally begun asking is, what is so unique about Iraq that Bush felt it necessary to go there first? Bush has been unable to answer that question without resorting to lies and non-credible evidence, and people are finally starting to see him for the war-monger that he is.
Has anyone seen Canadian Bacon directed by Micheal Moore? I don't think allowed it into the States. But it illrustrates how a war helped the country.
Plot: In this wacky satire on the cold war mentality, the president of the United States and an arms manufacturer find it in their best economic interests to plant rumors of a potential nuclear attack--by Canada. Then, following a border incident at a hockey tournament, a patriotic sheriff and his deputies plan a counteroffensive...with hilarious results.
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1800241413&intl=us
I can't wait. I'm going on Saturday.
Don't bring god into this, war is wrong.
"The war on terrorism" is like "The war on drugs." It's an idealist view. There is no end. It can't be beat. You will never run out of terrorists, drugs will never be completely wiped out. It's something that you WISH could happen.
What would be good: America could spend the money it uses to go to all these other countries, and what it spends on weapons, to fix America. Feed and house the Americans. Fix the health of the country. You can't fix someone else (other countries) until you fix yourself. America has enough work in it's own country to keep it busy for quite a while.
We go to other countries and fight battles. We destroy their stuff, then pay to rebuild. In the meantime, look at our country. It's a mess. Why not spend the money to fix all the messes here?
Yes, I know. The terrorists came here, which does make it a problem for America. But, why did the terrorists come here? Because we keep getting ourselves involved in things that didn't involve us. We go into other countries to try and fix them...instead of fixing ourselves.
This entire thing probably made no sense at all, but I knew what I meant to say when I started writing this. I swear I did! LOL
Perfect sense!
There is nothing wrong with defending your country, but when you particpate in a aggressive war against another country its long long defending your country but you are partipacting in imperalism even if your title is only Grunt.
Well, I think you boys are really jumping the gun (so to speak!) a bit. There is no draft, I don't think there will be: thank the Vietnam experience for that! In Australia, we lost over 500 of our own people, participating in that fiasco.
I don't believe the general well-ionformed citizen will swallow that patriotic duty crap much now. They won't leap like the lemmings of previous generations.
Look at the First World War, for example, the ghastly trench warfare. Who'd be crazy enough! Of course, the USA did not enter that until 1917, which was sensible from your viewpoint. It seemed that Uncle Sam wasn't self-appointed world policeman back then.
Anyway, there is no "war". And if you accept that there is, it will be a cultural war- one that you do not and cannot win with firearms, bombs and "weapons of mass destruction."
And, of course, the draft would mean a major haircut for all you lads, which would be the best reason not to take part!
Andrew of Melbourne, Australia.
None of us, or at least those who were born in the states, chose to live in America. Why should we act as if it is our prideful duty to fight for a nation in which we were born in by chance?
Absolutely false. While it is not your choice where to be born, it *IS* your choice where you live. A passport is easy to get; if you don't like where you live, choose where you do like. Stay ... or leave ... either choice is honorable. Don't whine about not having a choice when the choice is all yours to make.
Going to war and 'dying for your country' is completely unnatural.
When a family is under attack, it is then honorable to protect your family, being the man of the house and to protect wife and children. This is human instinct. How can marines and soldiers die for millions of people, most they have never met in their life??? Any animal or human that is under threat from another person does his best to protect his family, which is the natural thing to do, but how is wasting your life going to benefit America or any other country who deploys civilian turned soldiers against their will, especially if they have had training but would rather kill themselves out of depression than fight a war they do not believe in. And many times, killing each other doesn't weaken the opposing force, as if one American managed to only kill 1 rebel Iraqi, another Iraqi could come along and kill the soldier and maybe 10 others, so that was a waste of life. I think it's stupid that people want to don the uniform and believe they are fighting for their country, American's born in the country did not choose to be born there, therefore they should have a say on whether they want to fight this war the vast majority of American citizens, I believe, think it is unjust!
This topic touches a very deep nerve. First I will say I think it is highly unlikely we'll ever see a draft again. Nowadays all you young guys have the Internet, and those of you who chose not to fight would get the support from one another that it would take to refuse in droves. When I was of draftable age, we were all very isolated from one another outside of a few major cities such as San Francisco. Every person who resisted felt very much alone. Without "the people's media" - the Internet - the only way we had to hear about others was from what little the corporate media would dish out, and it was sparse indeed - but it was the only media we had that would reach everyone. The line from that media was never supportive.
The same empowerment young guys get on this web board about their hair would today be gotten in other Internet venues which would speak to standing up for themselves when it came to a draft. In the 1960s, people in San Francisco were in touch with others and they resisted very successfully. Now with the Internet the whole nation would be like San Francisco.
In the 1960s to those of us whose social group was longhaired men or who had a born-longhair identity, the draft felt like genocide. It was not only an assault on our individual persons, it was an assault on our community, our people. On the news we'd often see images of them wiping out longhairs by the dozens in induction centers. This official and very blatant assault on our community went on for many years.
Personally, I felt far worse about losing my hair than I felt about furthering any political cause I didn't believe in. Without my hair, I felt as if they had cut off my head. I felt I was surrounded by people who also had no heads. As a man who had spent his lifetime mostly surrounded by men with hair, I felt like I was surrounded by space aliens. This whole scene was so traumatic that on day five of my military stint I cracked up, and they saw it was genuine. They kicked me out.
Bill
I would have hated to be you at that time. It is very upsetting about all those longhairs losing their hair. I think they should drop that rule about soldiers can't wear their hair how they like. They all look like depressed zombies when I see them. I know you must of been really upset when they chopped your hair off. I am glad you hair is long now though. Kicked you out in only 5 days, lol Bill you are a great guy.
Dwayne
Misread what you said on the last sentence, but they still kicked you out, which is funny and a great thing :)
Marines require a clean shave and a constant haircut, maximum length being a quarter inch on top, that's it untill you're out. All the other services require the same thing for boot camp but once you "gradjeeate" and go into active, or reserve, duty you may wear your hair and facial hair as you please. Infact I once saw a picture of a soldier of today who took his helmet out and I'd say a good two feet of dreadlocks came flying out.
That's actually not true. I just went and read every brach of the U.S. Military's dress code, and every single one implicitly forbids male long hair.
Yeah, no way can anybody just do that. I bet the guy with the dreds was some kind of special operator. The more famous example of that is beards in Afghanistan. AFAIK, it's a general rule that you can't have a beard, but it served their purpose over there.
When my dad was in the British army, they didn't allow hair below the hem of the beret. Needless to say, one man in his unit altered his hat by making a gusset in it so he could pull it down over his ears. Apparently that worked, although it wouldn't allow anything like long hair.
That's actually not true. I just went and read the dress codes of all of the branches of the U.S. military, and all of them implicitly forbid male long hair.
An exception has been made to some extent in Afghanistan. It turned out that men without beards or with very short hair were socially so unacceptable that the troops could not bond with the populace there. The hair code was interfering with the mission.
I really fail to see the point of this regulation, even in the millitary, OK arguing about it here won't change anything, but Women are accepted into the armed services and they are not required to wear their hair short, so requirement clearly isn't that long hair interferes with the duties that are to be performed in fact Bill has highlighted an exception which seems to prove that short hair actually interferes with the mission. Go figure!
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When you say cracked up what happened eaxctly? I am suprised, I thought in those days they weren't like that, they just forced you to keep going. Did you try to get a deferment or opose it on conscious objection? Just curious, I don't mean to be rude. I find the vietnam era to be an interesting time , and I try to learn what I can about things.
I was freaked out by the scene. At some point I overloaded and they said I was sitting on the edge of my bunk just staring at this spot on the floor for about two hours. I don't remember anything, it was like I had blacked out, but I didn't fall over or anything. A guy in my unit told me later that they hauled me off to the shrink ward on a stretcher. I presume this was because my brain wasn't working so I was unable to walk.
I came to several hours later and I was in a different place. It was a large barracks but there were only five other guys there. I was so exhausted that waking up somewhere else didn't even bother me. It was like being in a dream. The other guys, I learned, were being processed out like I was.
It was many years later that this all made sense to me. That was when I realized I don't use faces to tell people apart like most people do. I have always told people apart by their hair.
The Navy guys did not figure out that was the reason, but they did know the reaction was genuine. I guess it was their job to know the difference between real problems and faking.
This is the way I feel every time I hear talk about the military draft. I would feel far worse to lose my hair (my identity) than be inducted in the military. Thank God back in 1975, the year I graduated from high school that they then discontinued the draft. Unfortunately, talk about this issue is coming up again. I hope the draft never becomes reality now.
Hair or not, I wouldn't fight for a war I don't believe in.
I'm in the same boat here heh. My plan is currently to move to somewhere in Europe if things get any worse here.
Wow! Interesting stuff.
Now, I can understand why the military does that though: If you had to sit in a hole for two weeks without washing, bald or almost bald is a pretty good way to go, although I suspect itching on a certain other part of my body would drive me nuts long before itching on my head.
At any rate, what disturbs me far more about the draft is that it essentially turns the general public into its own enemy. It boggles my mind that they can force people who have no drive to go into the military into a situation where they must kill or be killed for something they don't believe in.
No way should we ever go back to that.
After 911 there was no shortage of volunteers. People were turned away at recruiting stations. It was an even bigger deal after Pearl Harbor. There was a draft then, but it probably wasn't necessary. If, on the other hand, the military finds that it cannot fill out its ranks without resorting to conscription, then they are no longer protecting the people but are in fact an enemy of the people.
Since actually fighting the military would be ironic and futile, going someplace else is an obvious choice.
I have no idea what I would have done back then. Would I have gone? Would I have fled? Would I have finagled some sort of exemption or easy duty like our last two presidents? Fortunately, I didn't have to find out. At 36, I missed out on all that nonsense.
Do I stand alone as the only one who agrees with The War Against Terrorism? The only one who feels that the draft, though not a good thing, is still something that must be answered to with a great patriotic furvor? I do fear to say this but this is maybe the reason that the jerks in the world call longhairs "hippie" is because so far everybody else on this thread by the basic definition is a hippy, one who does not support war at all and is ready to run from the draft rather than respond. Patriotism requires the individual to devote his love to God and America. Or for Athiests then America. It's very necesary to love one's country and serve it when asked to. "Do not ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!"~John F. Kennedy Jr.
"Thou Shalt Not Kill" ~ The Sixth Commandment
...your using God to help justify one's "duty" to respond to the call of one's country was really getting on my nerves. The terrorists we're currently fighting claim to be acting under devine influence from Ala, but their beliefs contradict the Koran itself.
It always dumbfounds me how both sides of any war can claim to be fighting for any god. It always poses the question, which side does God favor most?
I totally agree with you there.
If religion didn't exist, the world would probably be a better place. Religion's purpose is to control people, to keep them to a certain system. There are so many religions in the world, to agree with just one would be ignorant.
Bob Dylan wrote the definitive song on this subject. As I recall it ends like this:
I can't think for you, you have to decide,
Did Judas Iscariot have God on his side?
Wow, I've just read your article, I have exactly the same view as you, that the bible was written to control people, and was able to threaten people by promising they would go to hell when the die, something they can't turn around and prove otherwise.
I agree with what you said, and I'd also like to add that I think the bible was just a big fictitious story. Possibly a man started writing a story, but when he died, his son or some other person found his work and carried on the story, realising that they could convince people that it was true and therefore being able to rule them and promising fate if they did not by including their commandments into the story, which they named the bible. One thing i'm certain about, it was written to control people, and the bible is unbelievably contradictory, as you highlighted in your article accurately.
That was an interesting read.
Different religions and different languages were creations of prophets and kings to keep us, the little guys, from befriending each other. They knew once we did that we would reign.
The Internet is making that possible. In time it perhaps will bring about the end to war. When I think of who invented it - the U.S. Military - I just roll in the floor laughing.
Our genie has been let out of the bottle; we will never let it go back in. How COULD we bomb Berlin now, sixty years after 1944? Way too many of us have friends who live there.
Bill
Cody, God bless you and thank you for serving this country. You're a hero in my eyes, I tell you that.
Lets hope you don't get a letter, how long have you been out? I worry to my dad retired from the air force in 99, so Idon't know if they will call him back too or not.
Anyway, I disagree with you though 100% about manditory service, no one should ever be forced into something they don't want to do, america is about freedom of choice, and I think that if you look at the constitution closely the rights of the individual are paramount to those of the group.
However, there is nothing wrong with choosing to join, as long as it is your choice, not someone elses.
The freedom to choose is a powerful checks-and-balances mechanism. If the president wants to wage a very unpopular war, he may find he doesn't have enough people to fight it.
Voting with one's feet to my eye is just as patriotic an act as voting with one's pen.
Can we PLEASE discuss long hair on this board rather than use it as a forum for expressing extreme right-wing drivel tenuously linked to the subject in hand.
By way of illustration, if someone with great hair posted a picture of themselves at a KKK event, would we tolerate it (or them)?
The military has picked this centuries-old fight with longhairs, not the other way around. To my eye we oughtn't come down too hard on the guys who are confronting the issue. When guys take on an issue, they are going to look at all the arguments, not just one. As for a right wing tilt, I just don't see it here. If anything, I've sensed more anti-war comments than pro-war here.
Well, we wouldn't allow pictures of longhairs raping children, so yeah, we obviously have limits. Life comes in shades of gray, and one can waste a lot of energy mulling over all the "what ifs" that never actually happen. If it happens, we'd deal with it then.
I refer to Marc's original post and subsequent views, not the responses to them.
"one who does not support war at all and is ready to run from the draft rather than respond. Patriotism requires the individual to devote his love to God and America"
now thats just stupid, to use God for your own purpouses, it's sad that so many people do that (killing in the name of religion) now i would NOT run from the draft because i'm "afraid" because i'm not a coward, i'd refuse it and because i AM a man, and like the saying says "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" i'm man enough to stand up for my own beliefs and live them, and serving in the army and dying or killing for a cause i don't believe in is AGAINST my beliefs. now for the God thing, i HAVE devoted not only my love but my life to my God, i don't know what one that phrase seems to be talking about but my God never commanded me to kill anyone, "thou shall not kill" remember? i don't mean to bring religion into this but if your gonna use God to support your own ideas you should atleast research it to see what he has to say on his own behalf.
By the way, to your first thing about being a "Hippie", yes i am a Hippie, being a Hippie means being yourself regardless of what others think, i do that and i'm proud to always be myself and not conform to other peoples ideas
Why are you not fighting right now, rather than posting your views on this board? Should you not be overseas right now fighting for your god and country? Don't delay, sign up today!
I know that if there is one thing which really upsets some people on this board, it is talking about politics, and the war in particular. I happen to agree with you about the war, but even if I didn't, you are a fellow longhair needing help, so I think we should all ofer any good advie we can.
Nobody should be forced to act against their conscience, that is a basic human right.
Having said all that, I don't know if moving to Canada will halp you, but good luck with your efforts, and never give up on being yourself.
France and Spain, both accept consciencious objectors and have pretty good standards of living... The "Pro Bush" Spanish Administration was voted out in the last General Election which followed the Madrid Train Bombings.
No-one in Spain supported the War on Terror apart from Jose Maria Aznar, the fomer Prime Minister.
So after the Spanish People suffered for his unilateral approach to cuddling up to Bush without popular support, they voted him out and brought in a Prime Minister who respected their opinion. Namely Zapatero.
Unfortuneatly 300 people had to die because Aznar supported Bush's vision. I can state with some certainly that Spain welcomes concious objectors and is unlikely to be supporting any Action taken by Bush and his War 'of' Terror.
Sorted
Sorted, I would just like to ask, do you believe Tony blair should be voted out in the next general election, or Bush is the real culprit and therefore much wouldn't be achieved if Blair got the boot?
I think Tony Blair lied to us over Iraq - He took us to War on the premise that Iraq had WMD and they were a threat to British National Security, central to this was the 45 minute claim that said Iraq had the capability to deploy WMD against Britain within 45 minutes.
However, the 45 minute claim applied to tactical battle field weapons, not intercontinental weapons. So British Troops would have to be sat on the Iraq/Saudi Border to be at any risk. We were misled into thinking this applied to attacks on mainland Britain.
This was a gross manipulation of information and he misled the British people, this I think is grounds to have him removed from Office. However he has been a very good domestic prime minister and he has made some great acheivements over the past 7 years. So I would rather see him returned to Office than the Torries. Though I would prefer to see the Liberal Democrats gain greater ground.
Removing Tony Blair and replacing him with Charles Kennedy (Lib Dem) would make a big different to Anglo/American Relations and probably unite Europe against George W Bush, this would stop George W Bush's War of Terror. Or at least make it very difficult to pursue. But if Michael Howard gets voted in and the Torries take power then nothing much would change.
Sorted
I'm a British expatriate in America, so I am a bit out of touch, but a lot of people ask me about this.
As I see it, the Tories (aka the Conservative and Unionist party) are hawks whereas the incumbent Labour party are mostly doves, only led by the hawk Blair. This is a no-win situation. The electorate are mostly doves, but neither party will do what they want.
The Liberal party (now officially Liberal Democratic, or Lib Dem, since they absorbed the defunct SDP) are doves, but were last in power in the 1920s. Perhaps it's time for a Liberal government again? I'm not holding my breath, though.
PS: I forgot to mention that Liberals are also known as Whigs
Quite Right, historically it was always the Torries (Conservatives) vs the Whigs (Liberals). The Labour Party only really emerged in the 20th century. Mind you the Liberal Democrats are very different party today than they were when they were last in power... Wasn't that back in the Suffrogette era?
It would be good to see if the Lib Dems had the capability to Govern, their idealogy is good, but some of their policies seem a little weak. (I say that as a self-confessed liberal.) There policies on Education & Healthcare seem vague, but their moral stance on International affairs is excellent.
I used to vote for them, but I can no longer vote atall. As an ex-pat, if you forget to return just one proxy form, then your vote is gone. Also, after twenty years you lose the vote anyway. I have been gone for fifteen years now, so in five years time I would have lost my vote anyway.
It doesn't seem fair that I can't vote. I'm still a British citizen. I'm eligible for US citizenship, but I refuse to go for it. I've got nothing against Americans, but even after 15 years I don't feel like I can identify with them. I still feel like an outsider, solely for reasons that have nothing to do with hair, some of which are really quite trivial.
Ey,
thot I'd float some information I found regarding the rumored draft. My enlisted sister called me up recently and told me she had heard a lot of scuttlebut about a draft... from friends. As far as clearance goes, she has the lowest level available.
Anyway... to my point, I found that snopes.com had a response to an email that has been bouncing around regarding a draft said to be pending at the beginning of next year.
Personally, I feel the war is justified simply because Bin Laden has been at war with the US since the mid nineties, and that the 911 commision found many ties between Bin Laden and Iraq. That's my opinion... and I will leave my debate there and go no further, since this forum is about hair and not war. If you disagree with me... email me. I don't think it wise to clog this forum with the war debate.
