new thread
There have been a number of messages recently saying "you look like a wizard":
Josh said it about me, Sorted said it about Chris, and now somebody just said it about Absolom.
What is it about us that makes people think that?
Is it the combination of both beard and facial hair? Given that, do Victor, Rokker and Gollan also look like wizards?
And what is required to look like a "professor"? Perhaps it is the presense of gray in the hair and/or beard?
I heard this comparison so many times I'm really curious what elements make people think this
Well grey indicates a level of age and therefore maturity.
With maturity and age come knowledge, and most people with knowledge will have studied...
So I guess that accounts for the professor thing... and if knowledge brings wisdom - then you have your wizard (or wise man).
Of course maybe its yet another stereotype of having long hair lol. merlin and all that.
I get the immediate presumption that Absalom should live in a log cabin... yet I have no idea why lol. But I think he'd suit it - he looks like a down-to-earth, simple and nature-loving kinda guy.
*By the way I don't mean simple as in simple-minded.. more like in 'simple man' by lynyrd skynyrd*
wolfeyes
Actually that was me. . .
well, like it or not, stereotypes do exist. And they're not all bad. In theatre, an actor needs to fit a stereotype for his character in order to produce the total suspension of disbelief in the audience (good acting helps too). For example, when I was playing a hippie in a musical last fall, I had to wear a tie-dye shirt, leather vest with fringe, green lense glasses, a bandana ala "Bill", and have my hair straightened. Why? because people have a preconception of what hippies looked like, and I was to fit their stereotypes so that could immediately believe "oh, that's the hippie", and enjoy the music, not have to think about it.
While the beard/long hair combo do help, it's not always required (in my estimation). There was this guy at the mall the other day who had hair remarkably like Doomlord's, and he had a sallow, sunk, wizened complexion, and possessed quite the "wizard" look even without any facial hair.
Again, it helps, but isn't always neccessary.
It's kind of like saying that someone looks like Santa Clause. My dad was fully white by the time he was 30, could grow a thick beard, and had a big round belly that wiggled like jelly. Naturally, he fit in with the "santa" stereotype, which made him perfect for the job at malls. As far as the facial features go, I'd say that Bill looks a lot like santa clause.It's not always the hair/facial hair that is the defining element, some people just have a magical/knowledged look about them.
That "Ball" Guy
www.thatballguy.com
I think people think guys with long hair and/ or beards look like wizards because that is how they are very often shown in movies and talked about in books. Some of the most well known wizards; Merlin, Gandalf, and anyone who reads fantasy books, Elminster, or Fistandantilus, also have long gray or white hair and beards.
I personally have always wanted to look like a wizard. Some day when I get gray hair I'll really enjoy the look. If you don't find it a compliment that is fine, but I think most younger people think wizards are smart, wise, and a little mysterious, things I wouldn't mind being known for.
As for the professor, long haired guys don't come to mind at all, sorry.
People like to stereotype, as That Ball Guy said, and this crowd will get that a lot.
Side note here: I was told I looked like Jesus a few times. As a 22 year old, 6'2" anglo-american I find it hard to believe. But, think of all those paintings. All I need is long brown hair and a beard.
I think it's just a 'wise man' or 'sage' stereotype: the long beard and long hair that's either gray or white. Think Gandalf. Or even the Lego wizard. Lego made a beard piece for the first time just for him.
As for a professor, I sort of disagree... Professors are most of the time pretty clean-cut...
Love,
Kiat T.
I would say long gray or white hair and a very long beard would give the "wizard look".
It's quite stereotypical, but not necessarily a bad thing. Most characters like that are old, but full of wisdom. Like the Librarian character from Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.
So far, most of the responses are not answering my questions. I don't need people to describe wizards to me. I was asking what is it about some of us, but not all of us, that causes people to make that comparison. For example, why is Chris compared to a Wizard, but Rokker is not? Why am I compared to a professor, but Bill is not?
For example, why is Chris compared to a Wizard, but Rokker is not?
Because Rokker looks like a philosopher, not a wizard. You just know one when you see him.
And Katherine's answer is an example of "cellular memory". If you know one when you see one, then the knowing is coming from some deeply held place--celullar, genetic memory that comes with the race. Those of us from northern european backgrounds come from a genetic and racial strain who long held men who look like this in special esteem. We have forgotten this with our heads, but not with our genes.
Robert
No. It's just that every image of a wizard I have ever seen is of a wizened old man with graying long hair and a long, streaked beard. I can also describe for you the pointy hat and gown, and I doubt those are racial memories.
By the way, I am American, but not of Northern European origin.
Okay. But don't be so quick to dismiss the possibility. What is your ethnic origin? Does it include an ancient past with long-haired, bearded wise-men?
Robert
I think it's more of a cultural identifier than a genetic trait. (IMO)
Ah, I didn't say gentetic identifier. I said genetic memory. The energy is held in the cells of the body with the DNA.
Did you know that every cell in our bodies is covered with our maternal grandmother's mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA)? And that mitochondrial DNA changes extremely little over thousands of years. Every cell in our bodies is held together with our maternal lines. They hold the energy of many generations back. If memory is energy, and energy cannot be created or destroyed but only transformed, then might we not be the "transformation" of that memory?
Wouldn't that help us understand these "where did that thought come from" ideas?
But, if this is all too disturbing, just ignore it.
Robert
It's not disturbing, it's just plain silly. There is no collective memory. That's not how genetics works. A foreign-born adopted child would be exposed to the same images I have been exposed to, and would be able to tell you about the bearded man in the funny gown and pointed hat, too.
Ah, then answer just one more thing. Who first taught you that you were silly, and what was it that you knew that was called silly? Okay, that's two questions.
Robert
I am not silly. This notion of yours that the collective memory of a few hundred years can be imprinted in in the minds of hundreds of millions of people through the process of DNA encoding goes contrary to all scientific evidence. That is what makes it silly, not because someone told me to call it silly, and not because of any primordial instinct to feel it is silly. Just because you are able to imagine something to be so, does not make it a legitimate theory deserving equal consideration to, say, evolution.
Write it into a book, it's fantasy.
One last go at this. Katherine, I did not call you silly, and I have no intention here of calling you or anyone else names. I asked you who first called you silly, as it was a term you applied to my ideas (so, if I were inclined to take offense . . . but I am not).
What I am suggesting is not so far off the science-beat. There have been recent observations of organ-donor recipients who suddenly have cravings for certain foods, interests in certain music, etc. that they did not have before. On further investigation, they have discovered that these interests, likes, dislikes, etc were those of the organ donor. They seem to be evidence of cellular memory residing in the cells of the donated organ.
I am a massage therapist. I know that in working with clients that work into certain painful areas often recalls and releases huge, old memories that the client thought were gone. How can touching, massaging deep into a muscle recall memory.
It's not such a silly idea. It's just one that we don't like to think about. We think that our brains are in charge, when it is possible that that there is memory and something to re-member located througout our bodies.
I think William has asked a fascinating question. I was trying to offer a persepctive on it that makes a lot of sense to me. I knew it would be controversial. I did not meant it to become offensive, to call names or to be called a name.
Hope this helps.
Robert
We talk so much on his site about the reactions people have to us, and our own struggles to grow longhair that we know we were meant to have. I think a consideration of ancient memory is worth considering and not so way out there. Of course, the board members may think otherwise.
For whomever would like to go a little further, check out this well-documented essay that pulls together western medicine around organ transplants and eastern meridian medicine which is 4000+ years old.
http://users.med.auth.gr/~karanik/english/articles/attilio/cellmem1.html
Robert
You are the only one.
If we had genetic memories as you say, we should be flooded with memories of things humans have been exposed to in proportion to how much our ancestors were exposed to it over the past 2,000,000 years. We do not. Nor do you remember a single thing your parents did before you were conceived, which is what should have happened if recent ancestral memories were imprinted in your brain.
Things that an organism are exposed to do not change its genetics. That's not how evolution or genetics works. Mutations occur naturally at a relatively constant rate. In nature, most mutations result in defects, and the organism is more likely to die and not pass on the defect to succeeding generations. But occasionally, a mutation which occurs will turn out to be advantageous, and give a survival advantage to the individual possessing it, who thus is slightly more likely to survive and pass on the mutation to its decendents. Over many, many generations, this mutation may become common, only as it gives a reproductive advantage.
This was the standard procedure during all of human evolution as well, up to the present advances which have occurred in medicine, which allow weaker individuals to grow up and lead productive lives.
The giraffe does not develop a longer neck because it is reaching high in a tree for leaves to eat, nor does its offspring develop a longer neck because the parent did lots of reaching. The giraffe has a long neck because a series of mutations over millions of years each gave an individual a slightly longer neck, which allowed it to feed better, and gave it an advantage over peers with regular necks, and those with a mutation for shorter necks as well.
The reason we think of a long-haired, thin, older guy with a graying terminal-length beard (and a gown and a pointy hat) when we think of "wizards" is because that's the way the fictional stereotype is always pictured, even though there have probably been few "wizards" over the centuries that fit that description, and in fact, there have probably never been many wizards at all. Magickal/religious imagery is usually based on archaic fashion at the time the image first was created, and this is no exception. When the myth of wizards first came into existence, most learnéd men dressed in this way. (Wizards had to be learnéd, they were not farmers.) The myth is frozen in time. In the same way the Halloween stereotype of the witch is an older woman, dressed in the garb of the 12th century - straight black dress and tall pointy hat. Again, there have been few witches of this sort over the centuries, yet they managed to burn 9 million women as witches during the middle ages.
It has also been observed that this is the reason that even today, priests and nuns dress in medieval costume.
You are a massage therapist, and you have observed that certain types of manipulations bring out strong feelings in your patients.
I am a science teacher, and I do not feel that driving carefully will make my offspring better drivers.
Re-read the posts. I never called you silly. Wouldn't do that.
Further, you said:
Actually, when humans react to snakes, spiders, etc, the reaction is prettyy primal, and may be an example of ancestral memory.
And then you said:
Nor do you remember a single thing your parents did before you were conceived, which is what should have happened if recent ancestral memories were imprinted in your brain.
Actually, I have accessed memory from several generations back before I was born. I know this doesn't fit your model, and I won't continue to argue about it, but just note that each of us is not in a position to say what the other has or has not experienced or re-membered. On this score, scientiests and and religionists can both be "fundamentalists" and it is usually not helpful to dialogue in which we learn something from each other.
And lastly you quoted me wrongly when you said:
I did not say that certain manipulations brought out strong feelings. I said "memories". There often are feelings with the memories, but I said memories, which is what I started this whole response on. BTW, I am also a Latin teacher, a linguist, and have spent a great deal of time in academic study, too.
THis misses the point of what I have been saying. You will pass along to your offspring your mother's mtDNA. Every cell of their bodies will be made up of her mtDNA and only her mtDNA. There is an intelligence to that cell-covering that belonged to her, to her body, and it was reduplicated in you and passed along to them. The intelligence of each of those cells (times billions) makes up the "mind" of the entire body. As mtDNA changes very little through the maternal line over thousands of years, the memory of that cellular mind is passed along.
It's been fascinating, Katherine.
Robert
that I think it is a good idea to remain open-minded.
Personally, I feel our ancestral memories go all the way back to Adam.
I have heared of this "cellular memory" phenomenon before, my science teacher, who is studying for his Ph.D in Biology, and who I highly respect, told me about this.
I trust him, and although he did not say he believed in this, he wasn't closed minded about it either.
Why am I compared to a PROFESSOR, but BILL is NOT?" ~William
SO, from what William has stated, LONG HAIR & even GRAYING ALONE
are NOT the answers!
It MUST therefore, have something to do with the FACIAL FEATURES...
otherwise, CHRIS & ROKKER & BILL & WILLIAM would ALL fit
into the category of 'PROFESSORS & WIZARDS.'
SpeakinG as an artist, I would say it is a comination of FACIAL FEATURES + HAIR.
Both you and Chris have that 'certain something' in your expressions
that work together with the hair in creating the overall impression of
a 'professor/wizard.'
The facial features of an actor, for instance, can portray a kind, intelligent person...
while another man can look the part of a 'bad guy' or criminal.
That is: You just 'look' the part.
How's that?!
I cannot prove this, but my take is that it is genetic memory for a lot of folks of norther European descent. The Druids and other wise-folks of those climes had long hair/beards, and I think there is something in our genes that re-members that. It is also why I think there is a knee-jerk reaction to us at times. The Druid-Celtic wise man became a dangerous person to know when Christianity began taking control in norther Europe. To be associated with him might mean your own death.
The image of the long-haired, beared man (a look I also sport) recalls and re-members one in whom magic, wisdom, mystery, knowledge,etc reposed, but then, also, danger.
Robert
It would sound almost halfway convincing, except that most of the men of that time (in the celtic tribes) had long hair and beards. When confronted with the choice of survival or looking nice, it's amazing how many people will choose survival.
That "Ball" Guy
www.thatballguy.com
I think it's especially present in people's minds these days since you just had the Lord of The Rings trilogy out. Gandalf and Sauruman with the long hair and beards. I think it's the stereotypical wizard look of the long straight hair and a beard. Me being a Tolkien-head, I'd take it as a compliment.
My opinion is how the hair is combed and the camera aimed. For example: I think Ron looks like a professor or a scientist because the camera makes him look like a big tall person. The glasses and gray hair and pose make him look well educated. ( I think I saw gray hair last time I saw his picture)
to willie the wizard:)
sorry if i offended anyone i think wizards are cool thats why i said it about Absolom.
I agree that it is not physical features alone (such as grey hair or long beard) which will result in the comparison. It is likely a whole range of subtle indicators, such as bearing, facial expression, whatever... small things, which fit people's preconceived notion of "wizard" or what have you.
Both Ian McKellan and Christopher Lee were chosen for their bearing, their expressions, their demeanour, for a dozen other things than their appearance (after all, a cinema make-up team can put a false nose, long silver hair and a grey beard on anybody). Meaning that if you were to put an exact copy of Saruman's props on, say, Dan Ackroyd, he will still not look the part of a Middle Earth wizard. (Not to do him an injustice, but he would simply not be the actor for that role).
For each person, these indicators would be slightly or markedly, different. For example, going by your avatar pic, I would not see you as either wizard, professor etc. To me (and going by that pic alone), you fit "distinguished gentleman" and if I were to continue that line of thought, I would offer "well educated" and maybe "slightly eccentric" (in a positive way). All this by way of illustration; I do not generally judge people by their appearance so that I avoid the pitfalls of preconceived labelling (which are often completely false anyway).
Huey
Very interesting. How would you classify me from my picture? (I am curious whether it is atall accurate).
Hmmm, as I say, I try to avoid constructing images of people by their appearance but since you asked me:-
I can not give you an outright label, but I would say you are laid back (not in a negative sense) and calm. You are more the "what you see is what you get" type - no frills or pretenses.
Perhaps a truck/ motorcycle/ vintage car enthusiast (something with machinery, anyway). Can't tell you why I added that - I just get the feeling you perhaps like tinkering around with mechanical stuff.
Now you will tell me that you are manager of an accountancy firm with no interest in cars whatsoever and I will stand publicly humiliated, lol !
Huey
That agrees remarkably well with other's opinions of me.
I like motorcycles and classic cars (can't say I'm into vintage cars, I prefer relatively modern classics because they are faster). There may be something to this. How do you figure all this out?
I've never seen a manager of an accountancy firm that looked anything like me, LOL! I am a patent agent (but then, that's something I have posted here before).
I can't really give a better answer than to say "intuition". I can read something of people's natures in their faces, postures and most importantly, their eyes. Then manner of dress and other 'external' factors come into it, but I don't stop to figure all of this out. I probably looked at your pic for 20 seconds.... *shrugs*
Picture Purged
My avatar picture is slightly dated. I took that pic right after I did my Spring show, when I was keeping a solo moustache for the role. Since the show, I have ditched the "Just for Men" and let my beard grow out. Attached is my current look -- and this is the picture that Josh saw and told me I looked like a wizard.
You are right about one thing however, I am "slightly eccentric" - but then, it is always the OTHER GUY who is eccentric. ;-)
Still doesn't fit 'wizard' for me, but that's what I mean - each person will have a slightly or markedly different perception of a given person's appearance. From memory, you are a dancer/ actor and that is exactly what you look like to me.
btw, you have some of the nicest hair I've ever seen.
I never claimed I wasn't *grin*
