new thread
Yes, its true. Some of you might remember I posted here about a month ago I had a funny feeling my father was going to question me about my hair being so long. Well he finally did and it was not pretty. I am at the 16 month stage so Im actually surprised that I got away with it for so long, knowing my old man.
Here is some background info - See my dad is old fashioned, we are an ethnic minority in this country and so our comunity is quite close knit. Now the issue of long hair in men as frowned upon in our culture, it not traditional to have long hair and where my dad is from (Pakistan) there are hardly any men with long hair, most have "normal" short hair - My dad sees this as status quo and anything different is stupid.
Now with my hair still being in the final stages of awkwardness, it can look messy from time to time. The other day he did not like the look of this and thats when the battle began. I respect my dad - but the arguments that came from my old man's mouth were truly pathetic.
-He commeneted that why it was so long if no other guys of our ehtnicicity have long hair!
-He said whats the big deal with it as he never had long hair in his life!
-And here was the clincher, he said what will other people think as I look so "messy"
OTHER PEOPLE! I discovered then it was not a problem he had, it was what other people from out comunity might think. With my long hair and bearded look, he is worried that other people, his friends and relatives - may think I am some sort of hippy/drug abuser. Yes you heard it here folks - my dads logic is long hair = druggie! Unbelievable!
This pissed me off. The hair wasnt an issue anymore. It was the method that he was going about it. He seems to think that if his friends and relatives see his son looking like what I am now, they will assume that he has lost control over his children (even though im 23!) - and in a culture where respect for your parents is everything, this is a big no no.
The way my old man sees it, my long hair is a symbol of his weakness to control his children - sad isnt it.
So we had this fight and I killed every one of his arguments. Then he took the Godfather" or "Al Capone" approach. I quote:
"You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone" - Al Capone.
He had tried the nice way with words, that didnt work so he basically threatened to kick my ass. A typical response from him in this situation. At this point I knew I had lost the battle. There was no point in going any further - he has made his decicion and it was final - even though my arguments were just.
I told him i'd go on Saturday (9/10) and get it cut so he and his freinds and relatives can be happy.
My rant is over and sorry if I sounded so angsty, just had to let it out.
So that is it - these 16 months were interesting, its only in the last few months I began to like the way my hair was going, buy alas it has to end. Finally I intend to post my final picture before I cut it soon and also i'll post my after picture for fun. I just wish there was some way I could donate my hair to someone in the awkward stage, lol.
...I WILL grow my hair back one day. I swear to God I will.
I'm sorry to sound harsh, guy, but.....
You are 23 years old! You are an adult. It is YOUR life. When are you going to grow up?
At the age of 23 you need to begin acting as an adult. I cannot understand how a man of 23 cannot make his own decisions. Your father is basically treating you as if you were 13.
It's time to grow up! If you act as a child would in allowing your father to tell you what to do, then you deserve the ramifications of being that way.
I don't mean to come across as uncaring or unsympathetic, but come on. Who's to say that you won't allow him to influence you this way when you're 33? 43? How old is old enough for you to decide for yourself what's best for you?
It's your hair. I can't tell you what to do with it. Then again, neither can your father or anyone else unless you allow them.
You're 23...act your age and take responsibility for your actions. The excuse of "my dad made me do it" doesn't work at your age. At 17, yes. At 23, no way!
Exactly similar to what I was going to write!
How can you let others make a decision on your own personals?!
Even 17 I personally think it is ridicules for a father to make a decision for you. Advice yes, decision NO.
Grim
I don't necessarily disagree with you here. I believe a kid any age should be allowed to have their hair the way they choose. However, since most kids are at home at least until 18, if not beyond, they unfortunately are subject to the rule of the parents.
Personally, I'd never ask a kid, boy or girl, to have their hair the way I want it. It's their hair, not mine. Not all parents are that understanding though.
My experience was the opposite of most. I watched a 13 year old girl with VERY long length hair go from bottom of the butt to waist to mid back to 1/4 back to shoulder length. Also, while going shorter she began adding highlights of various colors. I like it long and naturally brown. But it isn't my hair, so I supported her choice. It was almost physically painful each time I watched her hair get cut.
In reality though, until age 18, parents get to call the shots. Also, even beyond that age, many can't seem to step from under the thumb of demanding, ruling, overbearing parents. I know people in their 30s that still allow their parents to control their lives.
Not me. I moved out at 19, primarily due to the fights with my mother over my long hair. There was NO WAY at even 14 I would cut it, which led to many unnecessary arguments in our household.
At 23, this guy needs to grow up and be responsible for himself. If daddy doesn't liek it, tough!
Interesting point ! My daughter had never had a haircut until she was 8 years old and had fantastic blonde hair down to about mid thigh. She was begninning to tire of all the maintenance it took (particularly after swimming) and had it cut to just below shoulder length. Although she's only eight, she was old enough to make this decision - she went ahead with it and is really pleased with the result. I did suggest she follow the 'two-week rule' though, which she did! I thought it a great shame but it would be wrong of me to project my own opinions about hair onto my children.
You are a good man, Big L! I commend you and your attitude. I wish all parents had the same respect for their children and the decisions they make.
The most important thing is that she made the decision and she's happy with it. That matters more than fighting a battle over something that in the end isn't really all that important after all.
Your daughter is a lucky girl!
Same thing here. My daughter is only 7 and she recently decided she wanted her hair cut to shoulder length. We tried to talk her out of it a little, and then my wife took her to get it cut. We also have a son aged 11, who decided to get his cut short and spiky at a similar age.
My wife and I both have long hair, but we wouldn't force our children to grow theirs long. We both had parents who insisted we cut our hair short, relatively speaking. It's the most pointless thing to argue about. Having hair a particular length hurts no-one.
I agree that 23 is way too old to give in. I started to grow mine when I was 15, and had arguments for years. As a matter of fact I'm 46, married with two children, and still argue with my parents over it, but they know I'm not getting it cut.
My advice is to do what I did when I lived with my parents. Stall as long as possible between haircuts, choose your own salon, go alone, get as little cut off as possible, and repeat as often as necessary. It won't make for harmonious family relations, but always doing what you're told won't get you any respect either.
Hello, im back thank you for the responses:
I understand where many of the replies are coming from but the whole "tell him to like it or tough" attitude is really not my style. I have tried to stand up to him but there is a point where i draw the line.
Granted im 23, but it has to be understood im my culture we respect our parents wishes even when we have moved out of the house and live our own lives. This isnt a cop out or excuse, its just the way we live. You may think this is "wierd" but it simply one of our customs
The relationship I have with the old man is more important to me than some hairstyle I have deceded upon. If keeping the hair long will result me moving out in him falling out with me for a number of years then Id rather have it cut.
Yes - he is wrong in this matter, but what would you have me do, move out and not speak to him till he accepts it (which would be never knowing my dad) - and to report him for assualt (if he ever did try) would be out of the question. It would bring great shame on the family and for that reason I personally could not do that.
We dont know how much time we all have on this earth, my dad is no spring chicken so if god forbid anything should happen to him while we are not speaking, then I could never forgive myself. Especially if it was somthing as trivial as my hairstlye.
I think to truly understand where im coming from you would need to be in my situation and culture. Its very easy as an outsider looking in to say "Stand up to him".
Western and Eastern societies are worlds apart.
I'll post a statement-by-statement reply to you.
What you're missing here is that you are an adult. You are no longer a child. It doesn't matter what your "style" is. It comes down to a matter of mutual respect. Your father will never respect you, at least not as an adult, if you do as he wishes. By giving in, you earn the respect a child earns and not one an adult earns. I seriously doubt your father would have this attitude with a person he has any respect for.
If nothing else, have some respect for yourself! You don't even seem to have enough self-respect to stand up for yourself.
I don't consider anyone else's customs "weird". Different, yes - but certainly not weird.
There is a difference between respecting your parents wishes and being your parents' doormat. I know of no culture in which the parents wishes are the only wishes that matter. Even in our American culture, we are expected to respect our parents and their decisions. This doesn't mean, however, that we are obligated to follow them without question.
I see it as a cop out. I see it as an excuse. You can respect your father without allowing him to bully you.
I also wonder about your father and his attitude. Why is it that he is so concerned about what others think? So much so, in fact, that he cares less about you than he does about the opinions of others. Is that love? I have a hard time believing it is. He certainly has zero respect for you or your wishes.
It's a shame that he doesn't share your attitude. Obviously, he cares less about his relationship with you than he does the opinions of other people. You need to grow up and understand that your admiration, fear, respect...whatever is a one-way thing. He doesn't care enough about you to accept you or your wishes. What others think is more important than what you think or feel.
I know I sound a bit harsh, but that is exactly how it is.
His acceptance of you is more important to you than your acceptance of him - in his eyes. He'd rather toss you out and not speak to you based on the opinions of people outside of the family than love you unconditionally - like a father should.
Okay, so he's wrong. But by doing what he says, in his eyes he's right! You are rewarding improper and what I think to be unacceptable behavior. And certainly, if he did assault you, he belongs in jail!
You aren't much different than your father. You care more about image and what other people think than the happiness of a family member or the right of a family member to be himself.
Look at what you're saying. You claim that your father can treat you as he wishes, even if it means beating you, just so long as others don't see anything bad.
Our culture was like that at one time as well. Fortunately, we've progressed and moved on. It's wrong to be that way.
Is it really trivial? If so, then why profess your feelings to a group of people? It is more than "just hair". This goes all the way to respect - not only between people but for yourself as well. You seem to have a rather low self-esteem, and certainly don't have much self-respect.
Again, I apologize if I sound harsh. But...you should know the truth.
If "something should happen", as you say, you'd have to understand that it was HIS decision to make the matter what it was, not yours. It's HE who is creating the problem, not you.
Grow up! Stop blaming yourself.
That's an excuse, nothing more. But if that's how you'll justify doing what you're doing, then so be it. Again, we are at the "don't blame me for what I did" attitude. The fact is, you make the decisions. If you choose to cut against your will, so be it. Remember, you are the one who chose to cut it, not him! And when you do, and you're upset, don't go around looking for sympathy. Don't go around upset and crying. Ultimately, YOU made the choice about what to do. I, for one, will simply NOT feel sorry for you.
You are 23 years old. Isn't it time to act it?
Ditto I couldn't agree more.
So should do what is right for yourself and the blame and guilty of parents, whatever culture they come from.
My mother may not like me with longhair, but that's here issue not mine.
John.B
That is EXACTLY my attitude with my mother as well. I'm not the one with the problem, she is.
Wow!, Rokker, THAT was a powerful response! I absolutely couldn't agree more with what you said. You have just put into words something so difficult, I couldn't say it as truthfully as you did, man I have respect for you!:)
Thank you so much for the compliment.
I was concerned about coming across as harsh or an a-hole. Unfortunately, I think the only approach is the one that tells him bluntly what he needs to be told.
Thanks again!
Absalom, your response certainly was to the point and I appreciate it. I really do.
You have definetly given me somthing to think about, your and some of the other posters arguments have started to some sense to me.
this part of your post:
"It's a shame that he doesn't share your attitude. Obviously, he cares less about his relationship with you than he does the opinions of other people. You need to grow up and understand that your admiration, fear, respect...whatever is a one-way thing. He doesn't care enough about you to accept you or your wishes. What others think is more important than what you think or feel"
has really hit a nerve.
I think I need to go and re-evaluate the situation.
Thank you.
So I guess you were just getting it out of your system and not really seeking advise then, right? It was your last statement that doesn't make any sense to your response:
"...I WILL grow my hair back one day. I swear to God I will."
What if your dad still won't allow it? What if his dying wish is for you to never enjoy the pleasure of having long hair again? You can go ahead and take back your last statement on the first post now if you'd like. God bless my friend.
Bruin
I'll say! I guess the West is a little more individualist. I suppose here in the West, a father who doesn't respect his son's independence is the one who we condemn as dishonorable.
I think that in many cultures, short hair is a symbol of conformity to others. In your culture, if conformity is expected, then I'm not surprised that short hair is also expected.
Conversely, long hair is an assertion of independence and individualism. As someone else said on here earlier back when I was lurking, long hair is a statement that you own yourself, and that no one else has the right to control your life. I think it means this to a lot of people.
So from that perspective, your problem suddenly makes sense.
Any many cases Western Culture use to be like this. Controlling famalies who don't honor their children, but the children are expected to honor their parents. I see Eastern Culture still stuck in the medivil mindset. Which is why we see democracy in the West and Theocracy and communism in the east. Except for Japan and SK. Even then Children in those eastern countries are expected to conform to certain attitudes and beliefs. Looking at the middle east. Children are expected to Obey their father's 100 percent. A Man can pass a death sentence on his wife or his daughters and get away with killing them in cold blood for disobediance. Women have almost zero rights in eastern cultures. In China abortions are usually decided if the child is a Boy(honorable) or Girl(Burden). I feel the east needs Democratic revolution to catch up to the west, maybe even violent revolutions.
Jimeee,
First let me say that I honor you as you are. You are the only one who can live your life. That must be respect.
Then, let me say that west and east are not so far apart as any of us might think. Both, in very different ways, set up situations and institutions in which adults feed of their young. You've given a very good example of how it works in an eastern culture family. I could tell you multiple stories of the very same dynamics in southern, fundamentalist Christian families where the father or mother says almost the same thing that your father said. In my family, the version was: as long as you put your feet under my table, you will do what I say to do!
It was a threat. Do what I say do or you won't eat. Nothing is more threatening to any human being than taking food away, and this comes from our parents.
Having said all that, I must say that I think we can Both:
A) see that our parents were/are doing the best they can given the light and experience they have and
B) choose to live within our own integrity.
And it's the hardest thing any of us will ever do. It's also the only way to live a life that you don't look back on with regret.
I appreciate you sharing the wrenching difficulty of your story. There is much there for us all to learn from, east and west. The notion that we are all that different is simply not true.
Robert
You say "some hairstyle" and "trivial as my hairstyle." Apparently to your father, your hair isn't just "some hairstyle" or "trivial," if HE would end his relationship with you over hair. How your hair looks is more important to him than you are. He cares more about a mass of protein strands than you.
The bottom line about this whole matter has absolutely nothing to do with hair. It's about POWER and CONTROL. Your hair is just the vehicle that your father is using to get you back under his control. You will be a child until you take charge of your life away from his control. It is high time that any 23 year-old person assert rightful independence.
JE
Your'e 23 and live in a fre world - you do not say where but presumably Europe or US.
Grown up, take your own decisions: If you can't now whenever will you. Its your life and your hair.
Sorry to 'hit' you with this one but 'cultural' excuses are namely that - do what YOU want with YOUR life.
Yes, its true. Some of you might remember I posted here about a month ago I had a funny feeling my father was going to question me about my hair being so long. Well he finally did and it was not pretty. I am at the 16 month stage so Im actually surprised that I got away with it for so long, knowing my old man.
I'll try to be a little more understanding because this one hit home for me. I had the exact same thing happen to me, granted I was 15 at the time so I can also understand the other posts as well. Bottom line is that because it's your life you can allow your father to make these decisions for you if you want. I hope someday your dad will respect your wishes, mine finally did and we have a very close relationship today because of it. It wasn't easy though. We stopped speaking for a long time and one day he realized it was better to have the longhaired me than no me at all. If you're serious about growing it back later then do you intend to have his blessings at that time? What will be different? I hope it all turns out well for you my friend. Good luck!
Bruin
Hi Jimeee, since you are legally an adult at age 23, you DO NOT have to cut your hair to please your dad. He sounds like a real control freak to me. You have the right to have your hair at any length you choose and you should stand firm. Your dad does not legally have the authority to make you cut your hair and you should tell him this. In the end (it may take years) he will respect you for it. If he physically attacks you or forcably cuts your hair you should file an assault charge against him. Some time in jail might convince him that assault has serious consequences. He does not have the right to even touch you without your consent. One option may be to leave for a while and stay with friends. Again, don't give in to control freaks but stand your ground. Your are an adult. At age 23 the decision as to what length to have your hair is yours and yours alone, NOT his. Be strong. Absalom
My responses in between:
Apparently your father fears losing his friends' and relatives' good opinion of him (even if based on superficial reasons) more than he fears losing his son's good opinion of him. Some dad!
In the West (presumably where you live, being a "minority"), the law says that an adult is responsible for his/her own behavior, not anyone else's behavior. Also, you're NOT his "child" anymore. He needs to get this thru his brain. He needs to stop thinking like a child and grow up.
So tell us: what is it about your dad that you "respect"? How has he earned respect? So he "typically" uses physical force to get his way? Brutality and being a super control freak certainly does not engender respect in me.
Honestly, it's your fault if you lose your hair length if you cop out and give into his abuse. You also will be reinforcing this selfish behavior, and next time, it'll be just that much harder for you. At this rate, you'll never know independence. You've got to take a stand against this man, and you might as well now. You are 23. Time for independence.
JE
Um your 23.....
Picture Purged
Jimmee, I have a co-worker who jokingly tells me that I have 'more beautiful hair than most American women'. He is also from Pakistan. He finds long-haired men amusing, and possibly thinks I'm gay. But no matter. I can take the smirks and the little jokes.
However, you are 23. I understand that your relationship with your father is of paramount importance. I do not understand the need to please him at such an expense. My parents would love to get the scissors out on me, and I'm 39. I won't let it happen and they have learned to respect it. If you live with your father, I would suggest getting your own place. If you do not, you should tell him that this is your life and that he should respect your decisions. God bless and good luck!
Wow, you certainly dont look 39. I hope I can remain as youthful as you when im your age. lol.
Thanks, Jimeee! I wish you luck! As for the youthful look, I spend my money wisely on 'Oil of Olay'. Don't laugh. It really works! :)
God Bless :)
Oil of Olay, really does work huh?! Shocking!:)I agree with Jimeee too, you look incredibly youthful for 39!!! Not that 39 is an old age, but I'd say you look mature and experienced with life, together with looks about 10 years younger than your age!
Great:)
Thanks! I appreciate the compliment! I really do use the stuff. Every day! It does slow the onset of fine lines and wrinkles if you are consistent with it.
Sorry that this may cause some argue, but, this is all making me confused. No one should be in this type of situation because of hair. Especially at 23.
Something like this should be resolved in an instant with a quick ‘No’ and carry on with whatever you were doing. Actually situations like this should just be ignored by yourself.
I just find it ridicules that people obey unnecessary rules and other criteria’s.
Jimeee,
Sorry to hear about your situation...but don't worry too much about it, because you'll have the opportunity to grow it again eventually. Like you, I was always pressured by parents and employers to keep it short...but now, at 44 years old I'm making my way to 3 1/2 years of growth. You'll get there!
Take care and grow it when you can!
Brett
For anyone who knows who Mitch Hedberg is...
"I used to have really long hair and people thought I was high on stage because people associate long hair with drug use. I wish long hair was associated with something other than drug use...like an extreme longing for cake. And then strangers would see a long haired guy and say, "That f***** eats CAKE! He is on bunt cake!" Mothers would be saying to their daughters, "Don't bring the cake eater over here anymore. He smelled like flour. Did you see how excited he got when he found out your birthday was fast approaching?"
